Charles Perry Locke wrote:
DM and DH,DAVEH: I've found that not everybody I speak to has the same answer, Perry. Furthermore, a lot of the answers I hear really don't address the questions I ask. It almost seems as though some folks want to be evasive in their answers.What I want to know is why, after three years of asking (I guess maybe
even 4 by now), DaveH still does not know what protestants believe about the
Trinity. He once said to me in a post that he had been asking that question
for three years and still did not know the answer.
About 9 months ago I realized that he really does not want to know.DAVEH: May I suggest you've drawn an incorrect conclusion.....
So,DAVEH: Once again, when some don't like the answers I give, they revert to preconceived notions.
while he says he wants to know what protestantss believe, I am not so sure
he is being genuine.
I found that rather than learning what protestantsDAVEH: I respectfully disagree, Perry. If you go back and read my previous explanations of why I am in TT, I always state my reasons as.....
believe, he uses that as an enticement, then rather than learning what
protestants believe, he chooses to debate what protestants believe from an
LDS POV. Now, debating is great, and debating from the LDS POV is also great
(for LDS), and so is learning, but saying you want to learn, then actually
debating the response is being disengenuous.
I'm in TT to learn what Protestants believe AND........WHY THEY BELIEVE THAT WAY.
.......What you've done Perry, is read the first part of that statement, and not assimilate the second half of it. Just finding out what you believe satisfies only half of my curiosity. In order to satisfy the second half of my comment, I question the answers I hear to find out why they believe that way. While you may think of it as a debate, I don't view it that way at all. Let me explain.....
Having a very biased LDS background, and knowing little else except what I hear other LDS folks explaining how they understand Protestant beliefs, I look at what I consider to be very elemental doctrines and find others' differing beliefs to be incredulous. For instance, I look at Mk 16:16 and Jn 3:5 (and other passages) in relation to our latter-day scriptures and revelations pertaining to baptism and assume a water baptism is a slam dunk affair that is necessary for anybody who want's to take upon themselves the name of Christ and to eventually enter heaven. So when I quiz other TTers about why they think a water baptism is unnecessary in light of these passages, some evidently take offense that I would question their position. So instead of having a meaningful debate so to speak, and exploring other passages that might offer evidence in support of their beliefs, many simply adopt the attitude you've presented above, Perry, and claim that I am disingenuous. While I understand your frustration at having a knot-head like me that is not interested in changing to accept your beliefs, I don't understand your reluctance to fully discuss them. If I were decrying your beliefs, mocking you, and making all manner of distasteful comments about you and/or your beliefs, then perhaps I could see why you would have an aversion to sharing your reasons for believing as you do. I don't even toss latter-day scriptures in your face, knowing it serves not my purpose of finding out why you believe as you do. If I did it (without invitation), again....I would understand you recoiling from any association with me. But.....I'm just at a loss as to why some TTers don't want to discuss their beliefs with me, as I have generally tried to be polite and inquisitive without being obnoxious or overbearing. Am I somehow embarrassing folks in the way I respond? Or....are some afraid I'll bloody their noses? (At one point Dean suggested he didn't want to cast his pearls before swine as his reason for not sharing his beliefs with one as lost as he believes I am.) As I've said before.....try me. If I turn into some monster you've never seen before, then chastise me. But if not, then ask yourself why you feel I'm being disingenuous.
WOW! I just read DaveH's response below again, and realized that I haveDAVEH: Perhaps I just do a poor job of explaining myself. It is not like I've not said it more than a few times....
been overlooking his goal!
He states his real goal in the first sentence: "IDAVEH: I think if anything Perry, you and a lot of other TTers are overestimating me. I've tried to be very up front about my intentions in TT. I've been accused of being here for all kinds of screwy reasons other than the one I've maintained from day one. I'm just glad at least one TTer (DavidM) gets it. And as DavidM suggested before, I would think other TTers would appreciate (gosh....I hope that isn't too strong a word) having a couple LDS guys on the Forum to chat with about our far out (from your perspective) theological ideas.
am not in TT to learn truth". Perhaps that is why he has learned nothing
about what protestants believe. The dilemma is solved. He is being genuine
by not learning what protestants believe, so that he can continue to not
learn truth. Very slick, indeed, DaveH! I undersestimated you.
And......doesn't some of these discussions stimulate your thinking? Haven't you ever wondered why Jesus was chosen before the foundation of the world to be our Savior IF God was expecting A&E wouldn't partake of the FF? I bet that isn't something that is discussed much in Protestant circles. To me, that would seem like a pretty important question to consider. From a Protestant standpoint, I would think it becomes a which came first.....chicken or egg.....issue. IMO, it should be fascinating when viewed from a Protestant perspective. (For Mormons, it is just a simple gear in a complex machine.....take it out, and the machine grinds to a halt.) So Perry....yes, I do like to debate (as you describe it) TTers about such things.....but I do it to find out why you believe the way you do when some things to my mind seem to contradict
Perry-->From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Adams FALL UPWARD
>Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:25:55 -0500
>
>DaveH wrote:
> > I have further stated that I am not in TT to learn truth,
> > but rather have an interest here in learning what you
> > (Protestants) believe and why you believe such. Why this
> > surprises you or any other TTer is beyond me, as I have
> > tried to make my intentions clear from the beginning.
> > Apparently there are a lot of TTers who simply do not
> > believe what I say.
>
>Dave, I have heard you have to repeat this so many times that I am sure
>you grow very weary of repeating yourself. I just want to let you know
>that I get it. I think it is a good thing that you want to broaden your
>knowledge and understanding concerning the religion of others.
>
>Peace be with you.
>David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
