Re: [TruthTalk] The Trinity

[Dave]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/11/2004 12:36:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ......From this, cannot one conclude that those filled with the Holy Spirit of God are OF GOD, and capable of seeing God?  Do you disagree, John? Hello DAVEL :   I am not sure why this is important to you. DAVEH:  First because it seems to make God so impersonal.   Do you feel comfortable worshiping one who you can't comprehend?  He is our Father in Heaven.  I'd like to think he is real, as was my father on earth.      Second, my LDS beliefs suggest God can be seen by those filled with the HG.  It is those without this spiritual protection who are at risk.  So.....to me, I am very comfortable with those who say they've seen God.  If they were filled with the Holy Spirit, then to me it is possible.  That makes me curious as to why non LDS Christians don't understand the Bible (specifically the passages I've noted that support my belief) as I do in this regard.   Can we see God with the physical eye?   ---   only when he manifests Himself to us in some form whether it be a pillar of fire, a burning bush, a spiritual indwelling or in the form of some human. DAVEH:  OK then.....apparently you do believe he can be seen.  That is basically what I've said I believe.   By the say, I am not a Protestant. DAVEH:  Do you subscribe to any denomination, sect or have any specific theological bias?   I see value in the appropriation of first century faith and values   --  unlike you, I suppose, I do not believe those values were ever lost. DAVEH:  Seems like I am in the minority on this one.   Hmmmmmm.....for that matter, I'm in the minority with every single thing I've ever posted on TT!!!   LOL   I say that to say this:  whatever conclusion we draw, we (or I) must do so without deleting the instructional - yea I say revelatory -- value of a given passage of the biblical text.   The apostle's conclusion ( no man hath see God at any time ) must remain a truth. DAVEH:   Though a misunderstood truth, IMHO.   I try not to use scripture to defeat scripture.    DAVEH:  Who's trying to defeat scripture?  I think it is (theologically) dangerous not to question doctrines of the Bible IF they are interpreted differently by different people.  Seems to me that many denominations that evolve because of doctrinal disputes.  For that matter, that is how the Reformers sprung up....they disagreed with those before them.      For instance, some say baptism is necessary.  Some say it is not.  Some say it should be done by immersion, some say sprinkling is OK.  Some say infant baptism is necessary, others believe it is not appropriate.  All these views can be gleaned from Scripture.  I find it hard to believe that all are ordained of God.  What I've found on TT is that it doesn't matter what one believes (doctrinally), IF one believes in Jesus.  Yet on the other hand....I'm chastised for believing in Jesus from my LDS perspective.      So John, getting back to your above comment......I don't think questioning Scripture is the problem.  I think we should question those who interpret Scripture to fit their preconceived biases.   When somebody says baptism is not necessary for salvation, I am anxious to know why they feel the Bible gives them that understanding when my beliefs are so contrary.  I read the Bible and see the passages that fit my paradigm and feel good about what I believe.  Yet you may read the same passages and feel that they support your beliefs.  Yet we can have diametrically opposed beliefs!  To me that is most fascinating. I Cor 2 teaches us that those with the Spirit of God have the ability to understand God. DAVEH:  I believe that with that understanding, accompanied with the Spirit of God......one can actually see God.    Understanding is much more the important matter.     DAVEH:  Seeing God may not be as important as understanding him, but for those who do see God.....I suspect their understanding of him may be a bit different than those who merely understand him without the vision. John -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.