Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection

[Dave]

Charles Perry Locke wrote: DaveH, I know you say you are not on TT to espouse your Mormon Theology, but isn't that what you are doing with Terry below? DAVEH:   Hmmmmmm.........I'm just trying to answer the questions that are posed to me.  Seems like I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't.  Guess I can't make everybody happy, Perry.  BTW.....You are one who is asking questions that require me to espouse Mormon Theology.  Would you prefer I just stop replying to your questions? It appears to me that you are using the Socratic method DAVEH:  I'm not sure what that means......but it sounds like you are suggesting it as a negative trait...... to bring him in line with your LDS beliefs. (BTW, I have no fear for Terry. I believe him to be well grounded enough not to follow your Socratic leading.) I have no problem with you doing such, David, since that is what TT is all about...but I just cringe when you say (type) that you are not hear to teach LDS theology, then you teach LDS theology. DAVEH:   I cringe whenever you use the wrong word (hear) to describe me, Perry!   :-(        Please forgive me for being a bit critical.  I only did it to poke you in the ribs a bit......   :-)     To be a bit more serious (assuming you've already forgiven me for my childish behavior), I find the Protestant thinking about salvation to be unBiblical, as I read passages like Mt 24:13.   My thinking on salvation fits how I understand the Bible, and don't quite see why you (Protestants in general) don't see it the way I do.  Rather than quote LDS Scripture to support my beliefs (which makes my argument much easier to present), I've tried to stay within the bounds of the Bible in most of what I post.  (And tonight I did go slightly out of bounds by mentioning some NDE stories.)  I've tried to acknowledge my LDS biases, but what I've mentioned below I can substantiate from the Bible.     I'm really not sure what you are complaining about though, Perry.  I do not say that we can save ourselves.  If you review my comments, I clearly have stated that without Jesus' atoning sacrifice and resurrection, there is nothing we could do of ourselves to save ourselves.  To me, this simplified view of grace makes much more sense when you look at what the Bible teaches....to learn to become perfect like our Father in heaven.  When we learn to walk in obedience to accomplish that, then we will have endured to the end and will find ourselves in heaven..  I think many Christians have it a bit backwards in their understanding of salvation.......Until we reach heaven, it seems to me that we have the promise of salvation. Perry From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:59:27 -0700 DAVEH:  ...In the LDS realm, grace is the action Jesus did (I don't think I worded it very well) that makes it possible for us to be saved.  Had he not atoned for our sins, nor been resurrected so we too can enjoy that gift.....then nothing we could do on our own could bring salvation to ourselves.  Therefore.....it is by the grace of Jesus we are saved.  That does not mean we do not have to meet certain requirements as many Christians believe.  Jesus gave the requirements....and as I see it, many Christians want to minimize the importance and necessity of some of those requirements. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.