Re: Re: [TruthTalk] WOW!

Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:45:49 -0700

Jt:Thanks for the update on Jenna. People, particularly family, suffering precipitates an empathetic pain in us, I believe. I have a brother, sister & mother going through some 'difficulties' just now. I drive home every couple of weeks for a meal and a short visit with my mom & brother.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: July 22, 2004 08:12
Subject: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] WOW!

 
Judy:I don't wish to be 'unusually' indelicate but, are you a senior? Are you have a 'moment'?  We've had this whole conversation previously. Thereafter you 'departed'. Now, I for one (I think it may near unanimity) do not wish for that (you departing) to happen again.  Yours is a 'voice'  that needs to be heard. I read and I respect what you say. Hereafter, when my 'style' exacerbates more than it contributes just say so. This is what this particular conversation was about Please take note that even the beloved 'John of laptop' took note(s).   Thinking of  Jenna  Lance
 
jt: I appreciate that Lance.  Yes I am a senior and I know I've asked this question below in the past but you always manage to evade answering me.  I didn't depart recently because of anything you said Lance.  Most of the time you are speaking tongue in cheek so I can never be sure what you are really saying but I don't remember you ever being mean or hostile.  Like Izzy most of the time I enjoy the challenge you and your two cohorts present :)  If you can not agree with everything I write I can live with that. What I can not agree to endure is the ad hominem or personal attacks.  I appreciate you letting me know you are thinking of Jenna. Also Terry's prayer at their home meeting.  She has been one sick little girl and was still in ICU last night but they are removing some of the tubes and she can get up and use the toilet now; today she is supposed to be going to her own room. Because she is on steroids for the leukemia her BP and BS are unstable - and they are still giving her a lot of meds.  There is a story in our local paper about a man who became a lawyer and was hired by one of the leading law firms here at age 30 but was unfulfilled. Married with a wife pregnant with twins he went back to school and got a Medical Degree and is now an oncologist.  He and his wife and their now 16yr old twins say they find this career most fulfilling because they are dealing with people who are totally without pretense, and willing to do whatever they need to just to hang on to life.......
 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Judy:Sorry but, you do USE scripture. I understand that you can't see that about yourself. Thus, this makes my point. Haven't you ever heard some version of.'thus and thus is true of you'? when you've replied 'it certainly is not!' Some persons have a greater resistance to being 'seen' through the eyes of those who 'know' them. I believe that you may be one of those persons. I also believe that I'm not alone in this observation.
 
jt: How am I USING scripture Lance?  Am I trying to make it say something other than what it already says in balance and in context to serve some purpose of my own?  You accuse me of USING it harshly.  How?  Scripture says what it says whether or not I quote it on TT.  Do you equate the "eyes of others" with Truth Lance?  Is winning a popularity contest where it's at IYO? Did Jesus say we were to look for Truth through the eyes of others or that the Holy Spirit would lead us into ALL Truth?
 
Judy:You could (should) have come to a full stop prior to the word 'however'. I do understand that you believe the further 'clarification' to be both necessary and helpful. The 'however' is a part of who YOU are that even a 'lib' like myself finds distracting & detracting. You 'use' Scripture harshly.  
 
jt: I don't USE God's Word gently OR harshly Lance, but since the scriptures are my source of wisdom I do agree with what they state.  Hebrews 4:12,13 reads "For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" - (could you agree with me that the Word of God is able to get to the source of who you are better than your wife can by outward observation?)  Then Vs.13 "Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight; but all things are NAKED and opened unto the eyes of Him with whom we have to do."  This is truth and it is what we have to deal with either now or later ... It's our choice.  I've chosen now so that I will not be ashamed to stand before Him later.  Also I don't believe we can walk in the light with each other and have the blood of Christ cleanse us if we do not deal with the sin that so easily besets us.  So this is where I am at. 
 
Judy:The relations between persons is part of what persons are.To some extent we are made up of or comprised by/through our relations with one another..  Please don't say ugghh! but, both of us are other than who we were through our 'connection' via TT.  It is, I believe, the case that Bev (my wife) knows me in ways that I don't.There are things, concerning myself, that she'd explain more fully and candidly than I.  This then, is a beginning.
Lance
 
jt: I see what you are saying Lance and no doubt relations between ourselves and other persons (including parents and the secular media) have contributed to making us what we are. However, when we stand before God we, of necessity, stand alone. Your wife may know things "about" you that she can articulate very well but only God is able to search the real you.  He is the one we are truly naked before.
 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Judy: Serious question:Do those close to you see things about you that you don't? God is relational(Triune). We are relational. Check out the meaning of 'onto-relational' and 'person'. It'll help, honest. The 'horse' (perch) from which you pontificate is occasionally even higher than mine.
 
jt: I understand that the Godhead is triune Lance - the difference between us and the Godhead is that the Godhead is not fallen so is in perfect and total peace and harmony all the time.  I also understand that we are to be relational but reality tells me that there are all kinds of breaches between people, (even believing people), because of our backgrounds and the cultures we were born into that will not be remedied until owned and dealt with in Christ.  God's provision while we are learning is "love that covers the multitude of sin"  so we learn to separate and love and accept (ourselves and others) while we/they are learning how to walk after the Spirit.  You may need to define onto-relational for me.    
 
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To the fanatic(frantic?) fringe:Oh that God the gift would give us to see ourselves as others see us (unless, of course, we're American)
 
American and/or a follower of Christ Lance; Robert Burns might consider it a gift to quote "see ourselves as others see us" but when we take into consideration the capricious nature of others (too much of the time); it is a whole lot safer to pray that God give us the gift to see ourselves as He sees us.  When all is said and done men's judgments come and men's judgment's go. It is His Word that endures forever.   judyt 
Oh amen, Judy. Iz

 

 

But Lance .. is a whole other kettle of fish.  I suspect he may have been brainwashed by the liberal Canadian media.  I saw two of them on TV last night both Toronto newspapermen - The discussion was about why in a recent poll 40% of Canadian teenagers said they believed that America is evil.  Noone believes they just pulled this out of the air and I'm certain there would not be a similar consensus if American teenagers were questioned concerning Canada in spite of Canada's refusal to help the US in time of need.   Another red flag is that Canada has just given Al Jazeera a permit to broadcast over their airwaves but has refused Fox News.  Selah!!

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