John writes:
Someone has probably pointed this out to you, Izzy, but your opening statement is not supported in scripture. The Holy Spirit does a lot of things but it does not interpret scripture for us. Not a single scripture you listed above supports your claim.
Izzy responds: Brother John, the scriptures I gave were intended to show Lance that God rebukes folks for misinterpreting scripture, and because they were given for our training in righteousness, you may assume that the Lord expects us to understand them. He does so by giving us the Holy Spirit (to differentiate between the spirit of the world and the reasoning of man.)
Here is what you said, Izzy. Your explanation above has nothing to do with your posted comment here -- except for the last sentence. I can read what you Judy write. You two can deny what you say, but that does not change the black and white facts of life and literature: Lance, God desires for His children to understand scripture. That is why He gives us the power of His indwelling Holy Spirit. Nothing in this sentence about rebukings or misinterpretation. Nothing. I am sure that you can see how I would misunderstand your purpose.
Judy adds: Amen! Whatsmore Understanding is paramount because Jesus Himself explained how he opens the eyes of some and closes the eyes of others. How does one suppose He accomplishes this? (See Matt 13:8)
What does Mat 13:8 have to do with anything we are talking about???
John writes: Both you and Judy believe this. That is why grammar and logic and hermeneutical rules have no place in your (the both of you) theology. And they don't.
Judyt: I wouldn't go so far as to say that John. I look up Greek words in Strongs all the time, it's just not paramount to understanding but they do help at times.
You told me yesterday that grammar is Greek and the Greeks were pagans.
John: It took me lowe these many months to figure that out but this most recent exchange brought that fact to light.
Izzy: John 14:26 âBut the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.â What Jesus âsaidâ (both before and after His incarnation on earth) to us is called Scripture.
John 14:26 is a reference to scripture? John 14:26 is a reference given to all us and not to the Apostles? I think you should try to defend either of these two assumptions.
John: Don't you see that if God through the Spirit interpreted a passage, He would only need to make that presentation to one person and then ask that rest of us give credence to that single individual.
Judyt: No John, the High Priest was a man under the Old Covenant. We have a different Covenant now and the difference is the indwelling Spirit and a heart of flesh. Our High Priest sits in the heavenlies at the RH of the Father. We are a body, brethren with one Lord in heaven.
Judy -- lets not totally disregard logic. My comment is not refuted by your comment. And why do I say that? Simple. My comment has nothing to do with the High Priesthood nor did I make reference to it. I was talking about your doctrine of God giving you the correct understanding of a given passage of scripture. If, in fact, He does this the only conclusion we can draw is that your interpretation is inspired and cannot be wrong.
John: Judy thinks her view is from God through the Spirit, but not so with Lance, or Slade, or little old me, or Terry or Jonathan, or the Gman, or DavidH or Jeff (who owes me a responding post, by the way) or whoever happens to disagree with her at the time.
Judyt: The above is a lying assumption John.
I rest my case !!!
By the way, I do not treat you this way. So, let's stay away from the "lying" thing.
I don't disagree with everything nor did I say you did, Judy. You might try reading before foaming any of the above have written to the TT list. In fact some
things I've read have been a real blessing. I am sure that this is true but on those occasions that you do disagree, often, you start speaking of divine interpretation Just because I don't always write ravishing reviews does not mean they are unappreciated. Again, I never even hinted at this conclusion.
Izzy: You are basing your opinion on human reasoning; not on Godâs Word. Everyone who is led by the Spirit will agree with the Spirit. Where we disagree with scripture, someone is not hearing the Holy Spirit. Who said I was disagreeing with scripture? You and Judy (in this case). Now, what if I say that you are the one disagreeing with scripture --- how do we decide? The fact of the matter is this: "disagreeing with scripture" sound never be a point in a discussion between or among Christians. And why do I say that? For starters, it is insulting. It is saying "I understand scripture and you do not." It is saying that "I am more in tune with God's revelation than you," whether you want to admit that or not. Secondly, it assumes our brain was made for secular understanding but not for spiritual learning -- a rather silly notion IMO. third -- it is a very judgmental statement and really speaks to the "I am right and you are wrong" fantasy. Fourth -- what does it have to do with the discussion. NOTHING. In fact, if it were true, the discussion would be over.
Judyt: Amen and Amen!! And I too reserve the right to be wrong.
In the same breath, Judy says " That is what the scriptures say" and "I could be wrong" (which, of course, would mean that "this is not what the scriptures say.")
John: I am working on a response to one of your posts (Izzy) and to Judy. In the meantime, I am reading and listening. One thing Lance said that struck in a personal way, was a criticism of those who assert "the Bible says thus and so." I do this myself when in fact, I believe that it is always wrong to say "the Bible says ...." and it is always right to say "I believe the Bible says ....." Once in a while, I need to be reminded of what I believe.
Izzy: John, if you directly quote a passage, you can accurately say, The Bible says: ââââ..â .
Certainly but things change when you start with the interpretation. One is inspired and the other is not !!! ............contrary to popular opinion.
A Cat, Izzy
a brother
John
