Re: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying

[Lance Muir]

Jt:You did not real Thomas 'well'.   '...there is a temptation of the mind to control. The nature of theology is that it should be receptive rather than controlling, open rather than grasping; a matter of delight rather than a matter of mastery. Grasping, controlling, and mastery are faster and seem surer. They are the shortcut to truth, but they produce a reduced vision of the truth. So always be suspicious of theological success.' (James Houston) ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: October 30, 2004 03:22 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying Greetings, Thomas or Bill:   On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 21:26:49 -0600 "Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Thanks for the helpful insight, Slade. I'm with you. Let us not confuse ourselves by projecting our fall-laden notions of hatred upon God. God is love. It is right and just for him "to oppose" the wicked. This we can reconcile in our thinking; that is, we can understand how God could rightly oppose a wicked and violent man while at the same time continue to love him -- just as a father may be right in opposing a rebellious son, yet love him still.   But there will be some, I fear, who will not accept your substitution. Try not to let it get you down. I would like to suggest that it is easier for humans (Christians included) to believe that God would hate wicked people than it is for us to think that he could love them. As sad as this commentary is (given the greater narrative of our God), it seems to be consistent with a fallen nature. After all, who would deny that it is easier to hate our enemies than it is for us to love them? Yet we are commanded to love our enemies. And so, what should we make of it: Are we to think that he who makes this command does not practice what he preaches? Are we to love our enemies, when he himself does not?   jt: We are free to love our enemies Bill because God has said "vengeance is mine, I will repay" so that leaves us free to forgive.  Of course God is love; but when you make love into God you err and those who remove his judgment and justice make him into something he is not.  IOW you have constructed your own God.  Changing his Word to fit your mental concept also makes your own God.  Psalm 11 does not say oppose, it says hate.  Now is it OK for God to be God or can't you accept him for how he is?   Of course not. God is consistent in all his works and ways. The God who is love at his core may oppose his enemies, but he does not hate them. His is an opposition which is consistent with his being. Even in his opposition, God is for us; for God is love -- enemies included.   Your god sounds universalist or unitarian Bill.   Does he also love the devil?  What about the angels that rebelled?   The question, it seems to me, in this day of terror and error and hatred is how ought we oppose our enemies?   Greeting everyone,   Bill         ----- Original Message ----- From: Slade Henson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 6:01 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying I think you guys have been playing nicely so far. Only a bit of sand has been flung in each other's eyes. Do you mind if I step in and make a small comment?   Look at Psalm 11:4-7 and its use of the English word hate. We look at hate as a "strong emotion of disdain and strong negative feelings (perhaps even evoking the desire for murder)." Can I ask you to transplant the English word oppose in place of hate? Do you think that fits God's personality better? I do. Now, look at Strong's/Young's and see if you agree on the English word oppose's usage.   (Another way of looking at this word -- the Hebrew word sane -- is one who needs to change.)   -- slade From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 9:48 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying   'Tweeking':But for the Grace of God....any one of us could... ----- Original Message ----- From: ShieldsFamily To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: October 29, 2004 11:10 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Arafat is Dying   Psalm 11:4  The LORD is in His (7) holy temple; the LORD'S (8) throne is in heaven;           His (9) eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men. 5        The LORD (10) tests the righteous and (11) the wicked,           And the one who loves violence His soul hates. 6        Upon the wicked He will (12) rain [1] snares;           (13) Fire and brimstone and (14) burning wind will be the portion of (15) their cup. 7        For the LORD is (16) righteous, (17) He loves righteousness;           The upright will (18) behold His face.