Re: [TruthTalk] What is a Christian?

[Dave Hansen]

David Miller wrote: Dave Hansen wrote: ... some tend to want to take a very narrow view in an effort to exclude others from their club, so to speak. I am rather amused that most of those wishing to adopt a very strict definition are usually unwilling to share that definition. It makes me wonder why they would be reluctant to do so. It could be that they realize they are wrong, and that dictionarys don't exist that support their position. ... Any time they try to define a person out of Christianity, it affects those who are commonly accepted as being Christian, so they don't want to ruffle any friendly feathers. I suppose another possibility is that they are simply unable to write a precise definition that doesn't seem ridiculous to anybody who thinks logically. I think all the reasons you have outlined are in play. The "same club" mentality is what I think overrides everything else. They view a "Christian" as someone who has eternal life and will spend all eternity with the Lord. The problem is that this definition is not an earthly one, and is somewhat inadequate because it cuts across a core Christian belief that only Jesus is the judge of who is and who is not saved. The only earthly belief we have that distinguishes the one who is saved from one who is not saved is that they believe in Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, it is apparent that not all who profess faith in Christ really possess it. They might be like the devils who believe but tremble instead of follow, or they might be like those Jews who profess Abraham and God as their father, but they actually have the devil as their father. So ultimately, those who say that Mormons are not Christians are left with using a term that is not able to be defined in concrete, earthly terms. The best they can say is that a Christian is someone who truly follows Jesus Christ, but that itself is difficult to define, so the term "Christian" becomes meaningless when they use the word. It is not meaningless to them, because they are referring to their personal club of followers, but it is meaningless for everybody else because who is part of that club cannot be defined except on Judgment Day. DAVEH:  I wonder why those who want to narrow the definition just don't narrow the description.....such as, Born Again Christian (already taken, I suppose) or Narrow Gate Christian or Strict Christian......something that would indicate they don't want to include those who fall under the broader dictionary definition. As you might remember, I have come to view the term "Christian" to refer to anyone who professes to follow Jesus Christ. DAVEH:  As do I. I recognize that the term Christian includes those who profess to be disciples of Christ, but who are not. In fact, I would go a step further and say that most of those who are "Christians" are headed for the judgment of the lake of fire. DAVEH:   Agreed........though as you know, not literally. Therefore, I readily accept Mormonism as a branch of Christianity. However, for historical reasons, I also view Mormonism as a branch of Protestantism. This is objectionable to Mormons, and they have worked successfully to expunge this label from many encyclopedias and textbooks. It seems to me, that if Mormons want the label Christian, they should be honest enough to accept the label Protestant as well. DAVEH:  As I understand it, Protestantism somewhat breeds beneath the umbrella of the T-Doctrine, does it not?   From an LDS standpoint, Protestantism has too much baggage.  Also from our perspective, the doctrines of Protestantism evolved from Catholicism, which was derived solely from the Bible.  We believe that even had the Bible not been a factor, the Lord would have unveiled the gospel in the latter days.  Hence, there was no need to evolve the doctrines from Protestantism. That is your historical background. I realize that you protest not just against Roman Catholicism, but also against Protestants and Protestantism, but such does not exclude you from Protestantism when one examines your sect from a historical perspective. DAVEH:  Most of the early members of the LDS Church were Protestants, so they did have a Protestant flavor, so to speak.  But we don't view that as being the same as the Church being Protestant.   We weren't protesting the RCC folks as such. On the other hand, you differ enough from Protestants from a theological perspective, that one might rightly argue from a theological perspective that you are not Protestant. DAVEH:   LOL......You can bet that none of the Protestants would want to claim us anyway!   You seem to be the only one intent on that!!!   :-D Peace be with you. David Miller. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.