Bill wrote: > I don't approach evangelism programatically > -- that's too structured for my liking.
This is interesting. You seem to approach theology in a structured way. Nevertheless, street preaching is somewhat unstructured compared to teaching in a church setting. It is primarily extemporaneous and therefore appeals to the least structured of people. In fact, I find that structured people have the hardest time with it. I'll mull over what you have said. I'm not trying to disagree with you. I just find your comment interesting. Bill wrote: > My greatest ministry has been to fatherless boys, > tough kids, mainly wrestlers, who think that to show > the least sign of weakness is to be an utter failure. > I am very physical with these kids. Are you a wrestling coach? In what capacity do you do this? Is this part of some church program or school system or something like that? It sounds very worthwhile. Bill wrote: > I have learned from my wife, who is a hairdresser, > that if you want people to open up, all you have > to do is touch them -- appropriately of course -- > and they will almost immediately let down their > guard and begin to talk freely with you. Yeah, I think we have all learned this in life and practice it. Touch is a powerful force. Bill wrote: > So I'll put my arm around them when > they are hurting, or give them a hug when > they're excited. And I do this everytime > I see them. And whenever the opportunity arises > I talk to them about things that matter to them; > and everytime I do this I am amazed at how easy > it is to work something in about the goodness of > our Lord. I have been doing this long enough to have > watched some of these boys grow up into fine and > godly young men, men who otherwise would not have > had a chance, were it not for some old farmer in Eastern > Colorado who happened to take an interest in them. I hope you do not think that just because I preach publicly that I forsake all this kind of work too. I don't think a Christian can avoid these kinds of interactions. I have met with fatherless boys in the projects and in various homes on a consistent basis when they have invited me. I have visited them in prison and jails, visited their struggling moms when asked, etc. I'm not sure why you think that I do not understand this approach just because I also preach publicly. Bill wrote: > My approach with other people is only > situationally different than this -- if it is > a woman, I do not touch her. Well, I'm not quite that structured, but I do understand the need to keep boundaries sometimes. My wife does not allow me to have any female friends and I respect that. Bill wrote: > I have learned what to say to get to people's issues, > and once I am there I know how to show them that > I care. As soon as people know that I am genuine > and, more importantly, that I genuinely care about > them, their life is an open book. I have now gained > permission to speak to their souls. I think I understand this very well too. What Christian does not practice this? Bill wrote: > I briefly shared the gospel that I share with them > the other day, and so I won't go into it here, but > I have found that, just like Zacchaeus, people > cannot wait to come down out of that tree when > they know they have been loved and accepted > unconditionally. And, like I said, it is then that > they will be honest about their sin, for O how > they want deliverance! I agree with you in this particular context. But here is where your boundaries might need to expand. These particular people are those I would call "in your class." They are a particular group to which you have relationship for various reasons. There are entirely other groups of people who would never get into this circle that you have just outlined. Maybe they are too poor or too rich. Maybe they hate God because they were raised to hate God. The reasons are numerous, but surely you must realize that there are entire segments of society that would never enter into this scenario that you have just outlined. How would we expand our borders in evanglism and get the Word outside this subculture in which we live and move? Well, public preaching is one way. Bill wrote: > There is a difference, David, between not > knowing that you are wrong, and not admitting > that you know you are wrong. I have yet to meet > the Christian who if honest will say that she did > not know what she was doing was wrong; > or that he had never thought of it as wrong until > I pointed it out to him. I understand what you are saying here because you are still working within your own particular subculture. However, there ARE Christians who do not believe the Bible is trustworthy, and who advocate things like homosexuality, or wife swapping, or free sex between consulting adults, or drug use, and the list goes on and on. You have to reach out beyond your particular subculture before you meet them. Let me give you an example concerning my wife. She does not venture out with me and preach too much, so she does not interact personally with those outside our paticular subculture. However, the Internet is changing that for her. She likes music and so she started frequenting a forum at www.cmcentral.com. She is always amazed at the "Christians" there who give supportive advice to women to live with boyfriends, or to homosexuals being supported to visit gay bars regularly, and numerous other matters which she considers sinful. Virtually every issue she has brought up in shock to me and asked my advice about what passage to share there are issues that I see preaching publicly all the time. She still cannot understand how these are Christians who advocate these things. I am always telling her, "why do you think I preach so much on campus. I see this stuff all the time face to face." There is the truth that deep down, people know right from wrong, but the rationalizing powers of the mind can so suppress the conscience that a new morality arises that is not based upon the spirit but rather upon the intellect. This new morality that is quickly becoming popular in our culture leads to atheism, agnosticism, and a brand of Christianity that justifies all manner of behavior that is an abomination before God. It starts with the sins that would only be against oneself or God, such as homosexuality, fornication, covetousness, materialism, etc. It then moves on to adultery and white lies and lying for God. Who knows where it will stop. Bill wrote: > When people are old enough to know they are > sneaking, they are old enough to know it is wrong. > They may not understand the dynamics of their guilt > or the nuances of their action, but they know it is wrong. > I do not expect to convince you of this, however, because > you are coming from a position of having put people on > the spot so many times and having watched them deny > their depravity so often that you are now convinced you > are right. I accept what you say, Bill. I only do not consider it inclusive of everyone. I'm only asking you to enlarge your borders and see that the world is not as simple as this. What you are sharing is particular true with young children, but the young adults in our universtity systems are in a different league concerning this matter. Surely you have some acquaintance with this, even if it is not staring you in the face through public preaching. When I was teaching at the university, the students would come into class talking about the preacher out there at the University Center. So after class, I would go out to see what they were talking about. People who I thought were rather nice people turned into monsters out there. I remember one girl who seemed so nice and I was witnessing to her gently during the year. Well, in front of this preacher, she took on a whole new personna. I found out stuff about her that I never knew. She was a prolific fornicator, practicing birth control, and had one of the most foul mouths I had ever heard. Prior to seeing this, I simply had no idea. I had never heard her cuss. She was on her best behavior for me. I felt very deceived. It impacted me. I spent time in prayer about it, realizing how my subtle approach to witnessing, while effective to some, was completely worthless to others. She was really a monster and I did not know it. I saw many other students of mine whose real perspective on God and life became very polarized by the visiting preachers. And the thing was, I also had scores of people asking me more serious questions about God, students finally coming to the Bible study that I had always invited them to but they never seemed to make time to come. Bill wrote: > But again, I think this is probably because you have > already put them on the defensive with your approach. Bill, I'm not a one track guy. I preach, but that is a very small part of my activities. Surely you realize that some people were put on the defensive by Jesus too. Others had their hearts opened up. I experience both too. Bill wrote: > Nevertheless, David, I have grown weary of this discussion. > I guess I have a sense of knowing when I am at an impasse. > If you do not mind, I would be content to let it go with that. Fair enough, Bill. I'm sorry I wearied you on this subject. If this is all that you have to share about your methodology, I think I understand it very well. So instead of saying that I should not speak about something I don't understand, maybe you would consider listening a little more to what I have already said. I appreciate you and your willingness to share in this forum. God bless you, brother. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
