Are we now on the "same page"
Bill? When was Jesus ever "driven" to do
anything? judyt
Judy, your problem is not with me. Yours is to
reconcile two very different words from Scripture:
"drive" and "lead" --
get the picture?
Bill I've never had a problem with scripture and you
are the one who insists that Jesus was literally "driven" to the wilderness (from one
gospel) when two others use the word
led.
As of yet you really haven't done much to "harmonize" the two; all you
have only insisted (contrary to its definition) that "ekballo" doesn't really mean force or drive out,
expel, exclude, reject, or compel.
Actually it is three - and the reason for
this is because in my experience so far God's Word has never been
contradictory and I don't believe that this is a
first....
I don't understand how you can feel justified in doing this, but I often have
difficulties making sense of the things you say. I do agree with you that Mark
had "a more forceful style" than Luke -- he demonstrates this throughout
his Gospel -- but I would like to ask you why the
Holy Spirit would inspire him to say that Jesus was driven (a
word with the thrust of being forced against one's will) into
the wilderness, if in fact he was actually volitionally led there like
Luke's Gospel is translated to state? Please answer this question for me, as I
am very interested.
Both Matthew and Luke use the word "led" Bill. IMO
the problem comes from trying to interpret scripture
solely by the use of Greek words. Ekballo does not
only mean what you have noted above, it is
also used with the idea of "sending forth" as
in ministry. Look at how this word is used
elsewhere in the gospels:
Matt 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest
that he will send forth laborers into his
harvest.
Matt 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break and
smoking flax shall he not quench till he send
forth judgment..
Luke 10:2b Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest,
that he would send forth laborers into his
harvest.
Again, if what you are seeking to do is to harmonize the two accounts,
then the way to do it is to translate Luke's word
"ageto" as brought -- the Spirit brought him to the
wilderness. This word ageto can also be translated to imply
the use of force, such as lead away, arrest, take into custody
(see Mar 13.11). And so, if it is harmony that you seek, then it is Luke's word which needs to be translated in a way which
conveys the forceful tone of Mark's ekballo -- not the other way
around: unless you can explain to me how one can
force a willing accomplice. Bill
Once again Bill it is three
accounts - two of them say "led", and one uses the
word Ekballo. To say this means "driven" would be against God's nature and His
Word. A&E were driven from the garden in judgment but God does not
ever drive or force anyone to do His will; if we will not serve Him
willingly, he leaves us to our own devices. The prophet wrote about Jesus "Lo
I come in the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy
will, O my God; yea, they law is within my heart" (Ps 40:7, Heb
10:7). Being sent forth is something
one is in agreement with and acts upon willingly
(such as ministry teams and being led by the Holy Spirit). Jesus sent
forth the 12 as well as the 70 - There is no record that he ever drove anyone
or forced them to do anything. It is
unfortunate that the translators did not use "sent
forth" rather than "driveth".
The mystery is solved for me. judyt
This is a good example of the principle that
from the mouths of "two or more witnesses" let every
word be established. I was remiss in not
doing more homework when we were discussing this.
Both Luke and Matthew say "Jesus was led" - only
Mark uses the word "driven" in the KJV. The
NASB translates it as "impelled" and has a note
saying that **this is because of Mark's more
forceful style.
Are we now on the "same page" Bill? When
was Jesus ever "driven" to do anything? They
couldn't even throw Him off the brow of the cliff
in their wrath? Noone took His life and the
Prince of this World had nothing in Him.
judyt
Say Bill,
In my reading this a.m. I note that Luke 4:1
says "And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned
from Jordan, and was LED by the
Spirit into the wilderness" (Luke 4:1)
So what do you think?
Which is it that harmonizes with the rest of
scripture "being driven or being
led?"
