Are we now on the "same page"
Bill? When was Jesus ever "driven" to do
anything?
judyt
Judy, your problem is not with me. Yours
is to reconcile two very different words from
Scripture: "drive" and "lead" -- get the picture?
Bill I've never had a problem with scripture and
you are the one who insists that
Jesus was literally "driven" to the wilderness
(from one gospel) when two others use the
word led.
As of yet you really haven't done much to "harmonize" the two; all
you have only insisted (contrary to its definition) that "ekballo" doesn't really mean force or drive out,
expel, exclude, reject, or compel.
Actually it is three - and the reason for
this is because in my experience so far God's Word has never been
contradictory and I don't believe that this is
a first....
I don't understand how you can feel justified in doing this, but I often
have difficulties making sense of the things you say. I do agree with you
that Mark had "a more forceful style" than Luke -- he demonstrates
this throughout his Gospel -- but I would like to ask you why the Holy Spirit would inspire him to say that Jesus was
driven (a word with the thrust of being forced against
one's will) into the wilderness, if in fact he was
actually volitionally led there like Luke's Gospel is translated to state?
Please answer this question for me, as I am very interested.
Both Matthew and Luke use the word "led" Bill.
IMO the problem comes from trying to interpret scripture
solely by the use of Greek words.
Ekballo does not
only mean what you have noted above, it
is also used with the idea of "sending
forth" as in ministry. Look at how this
word is used elsewhere in the
gospels:
Matt 9:38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the
harvest that he will send forth laborers
into his harvest.
Matt 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break and
smoking flax shall he not quench till he send
forth judgment..
Luke 10:2b Pray ye therefore the Lord of the
harvest, that he would send forth
laborers into his harvest.
Again, if what you are seeking to do is to harmonize the two
accounts, then the way to do it is to translate Luke's
word "ageto" as brought -- the Spirit brought him to the
wilderness. This word ageto can also be translated to
imply the use of force, such as lead away, arrest, take into
custody (see Mar 13.11). And so, if it is harmony that you seek, then
it is Luke's word which needs to be translated in a
way which conveys the forceful tone of Mark's ekballo -- not the
other way around: unless you can explain to me how one
can force a willing accomplice. Bill
Once again Bill it is
three accounts - two of them say
"led", and one uses the word Ekballo. To say
this means "driven" would be against God's nature and His Word. A&E
were driven from the garden in judgment but God does not ever drive
or force anyone to do His will; if we will not serve Him willingly, he
leaves us to our own devices. The prophet wrote about Jesus "Lo I come in
the volume of the book it is written of me, I delight to do thy will, O my
God; yea, they law is within my heart" (Ps 40:7, Heb
10:7). Being sent forth is something
one is in agreement with and acts upon
willingly (such as ministry teams and being led by the Holy Spirit).
Jesus sent forth the 12 as well as the 70 - There is no record that he
ever drove anyone or forced them to do
anything. It is unfortunate that the translators did not use
"sent forth" rather than
"driveth". The mystery is solved for
me. judyt
This is a good example of the principle
that from the mouths of "two or more witnesses" let
every
word be established. I was remiss in not
doing more homework when we were discussing this.
Both Luke and Matthew say "Jesus was led" -
only Mark uses the word "driven" in the KJV. The
NASB translates it as "impelled" and has a note
saying that **this is because of Mark's more
forceful style.
Are we now on the "same page"
Bill? When was Jesus ever "driven" to do anything?
They
couldn't even throw Him off the brow of the
cliff in their wrath? Noone took His life and
the
Prince of this World had nothing in Him.
judyt
Say Bill,
In my reading this a.m. I note that Luke
4:1 says "And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned
from Jordan, and was LED by the
Spirit into the wilderness" (Luke 4:1)
So what do you think?
Which is it that harmonizes with the rest of
scripture "being driven or being
led?"
