Re: [TruthTalk] Hell = Physical Torture?

[Dave Hansen]

Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave,   We are talking obtusely here. The little 'g' god, the god of Mormonism is NOT the big 'G', the God of the Bible. You are confusing the two. They are not the same. Your little 'g' god may be a warm fuzzy parent to you, but don't confuse him with the big 'G' God of the Bible. I refer you to God's Holy Word for the details. You won't find the meat of the truth in the LDS works. And all you will find in the little 't' temple is occultic rights and symbols, like the clasps, tokens, signs, and penalties of Masonry. You live in a cauldron of deceit. DAVEH:   Awe shucks, Perry.....I'm only on TT for an hour or two a day.....   :-) Many have been sent to you and are STILL being sent to you to tell you the truth. You have rejected and continue to reject them all. Not all of them are warm and fuzzy. Some yell, some scream, some wave underwear, and some put flyers on your car, and some are in error. But they all they are desparate for your soul to be saved. DAVEH:  Some of them pick a strange way to attempt the task.  Go back and look at what you just wrote, Perry.  Does any of that sound like the way to promote the Gospel of Jesus?   And you wonder why I reject those tactics.....?   Now, lets see. If you are judged for believeing not in the Jesus and God of the Bible, but in the false jesus and a false god of Mormonism, and consequently are consigned to hell for eternity (whatever hell might actually turn out to be, not what you or anyone else might imagine it to be), whose fault is that? DAVEH:  For those who wish to consign me to hell for my beliefs, let me just reiterate them.   I believe Jesus is the Son of our Heavenly Father, and came to this earth in a physical body of flesh and blood, died and atoned for my sins, and was resurrected with a glorified and exalted physical body of flesh and bones.  Now....from your perspective, Perry....do I need to believe anything more than what I've stated I believe above to be saved?  IF so, specifically what does one need to believe to be saved that I do not believe?     On the other hand, if believing in Jesus is all that is required for salvation, then why do you think I should worry about attributing fault to anybody....? You have been told the truth over and over. YOU have chosen to reject it. DAVEH:  Wow!    Should rejecting truth as proclaimed on TT be a worry to anybody who believes in Jesus???  If so, perhaps I'm not the only TTer is in jeopardy..... Do you expect to blame someone else because YOU, having heard the truth over and over, chose to reject it? DAVEH:   Your drivel is tiring, Perry.  FTR......I have NOT rejected Jesus.  I just reject some of the things I hear on TT that are purported to be truth.     If you think I've rejected Jesus, Perry.....please list specific details of what I said.  If you aren't able to do so, then please consider refraining from making such accusations. Get real. Your false hope lies with a false jesus and false god that cannot save you, regardless of how liberal they are at the false judgement you are deceived into believing.   Read the Bible, Dave. It tells it all. DAVEH:   Thank you for providing a good example of a purported truth being fostered on TT.   Why would you assume the Bible tells all, Perry?  That's simply nonsense.  If it did, then why is there so much bickering and arguing on TT?  Does nobody here read the Bible???  Before you tell me to read the Bible, Perry, why don't you tell the other TTers to do likewise.  Once the doctrinal disagreements end, then we could assume everybody has read the Bible, eh! Become like a child, forget the lies you have been spoonfed from infancy. Grapple with the REAL GOD and JESUS! Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. DAVEH:   ???   Huh.....Do you mean it isn't a free gift after all.....     =-O Not with the false hope of a little g god that will save everybody.   You have asked about what I think Hell is. I beleive that Hell is separation from God for eternity. It may feel like a fire burning in you that cannot be quenched. DAVEH:  Thank you for answering my question, Perry.  I do find your answer very interesting, as it mirrors my belief.  I did not realize you shared the LDS concept of hell.  Perhaps I've been a bit of an influence on you, eh!   :-)     In all the years I've been on TT, that is the explanation I've given.  And guess what.....I've been metaphorically tarred and feathered for expressing such.  (Relax Perry...........You are amongst friends, so I don't expect that to happen to you!)     :-)     So.....If you agree with the LDS perspective, Perry....why are you bothered by my perception of hell?   Hmmmmm....now that I think about it, maybe you aren't bothered.  I suspect Kevin is though!  Anyway, at least I can count you as an ally on TT when it comes to the lake of fire.  From your answer, you apparently do not believe it is absolutely a literal lake of fire we are tossed into by God.  (Note---That's not to say you reject the notion that it could be literal though.)  But in your study of the Bible you have concluded that the literalness of hell being a lake of fire cannot be discerned from the Bible.   Have I assumed anything incorrect about your understanding, Perry?     Logically then, you are suggesting those TTers who do absolutely believe hell is a literal lake of fire have not read their Bibles and understood it correctly (as you suggested I do above).   Or alternatively, I suppose they could have read the Bible and know the truth about hell that you were unable to discern from reading the Bible.   But if that were the case, I don't think you would have challenged me to........ Read the Bible, Dave. It tells it all. ........So Perry, it seems as you've read the Bible and formulated your guess about the nature of hell, while other TTers have read the same Bible and formulated other conclusions about hell.   On the other hand, I've read the Bible and additional Scripture from the Lord and have a third perspective of hell.  Frankly, I feel more comfortable in my understanding.  And remember Perry.....Your understanding and mine are very similar.  The difference is that I seem to be a little more certain of my understanding, while you seemed to be wavering a bit in your explanation. Why will it feel that way? BECAUSE YOU WILL CLEARLY KNOW, UNDERSTAND, AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU ARE THERE BY YOUR CHOICE TO REJECT THE REAL AND TRUE AND ONLY GOD!!! But whether it is an eternal flame, or just feels like it, or is something that I can't image, I KNOW I DO NOT WANT IT!!! I am not perfect. My understanding of theology is not perfect, DAVEH:  That seems strange to hear from a guy who recently admonished....... Read the Bible, Dave. It tells it all. .......But I suppose you are viewing it from a higher perspective, eh Perry..... but I am forgiven. And I know it. "For the Bible tells me so". Perry From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Hell = Physical Torture? Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 07:14:49 -0800 Charles Perry Locke wrote: From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>    So Perry.....getting back to God....do you really think a Perfect Parent would want to eternally torture their wayward children?  To me...../that /is illogical. No. As I said before, God would like for NONE of us to perish DAVEH:  I concur.  The difference is that I do not believe to perish means to be literally tossed into a lake of fire.  I assume you believe in the literalness (being tossed into a lake of fire) of such punishment, Perry? ...you intentionally cast God in a bad light, even though you have been told otherwise many times before, you just do not want to accept it. DAVEH:  Me cast God in a bad light!?!?!?!   Give me a break, Perry.  I do not believe that God is a cruel punisher who forever physically tortures those who do not accept his Son's sacrifice.  That is what I have learned many Protestants believe......and, I assume you are one.....is that correct? You have to make God out to be an ogre through the eyes of your "protestants" so your mormon god seems bigger. DAVEH:  You blame me for thinking that way???  Amazing, Perry.  It wasn't me who came up with fliers that say.... THOUSANDS OF DEGREES HOT! AND NOT A DROP OF WATER. THE BURNING HELL TORTURED LOST SOULS BURNING FOREVER .......That's the kind of stuff Protestants put on windshields to try to scare folks into believing the way they do.  I believe God is a loving and merciful parent.  It seems to me that wacko Protestants want to make him into an ogre. It seems illogical to you because you use extra-biblical and non-biblical references to try to define God instead of relying solely on his Word. Your mind has been polluted by the heretical LDS works. If you relied on his Word you would clearly see that your impressions of God are all wrong. DAVEH:  As if yours are all correct?  My God is a parent.  As far as I can see, most Protestants don't perceive him that way, but rather have painted him as an ogre.    Let me ask you a question, Perry.  Do you think it is God (or one of his angels) who will literally toss people into the lake of fire who fail to meet his requirements, or do you think the people who do not accept Jesus will toss themselves into that fiery pit? Perry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.