Re: [TruthTalk] Eternal Judgment

[David Miller]

David Miller wrote: >> ... Judy gained an understanding from what you >> wrote and then expressed her understanding.  >> She did not quote you initially.  She quoted you >> after you objected.    John wrote: > No she did not.    from the outset, my comments were > in ""  .   I am not backing off of this, this time.   > ... Insulting me with that last sentence solves no problem > and is, in and of itself, a deliberate misrepresentation of me.     You are either deliberately trying to deceive us or you have a poor memory.  I have quoted the relevant posts below.  Judy never misquoted you.  It is plain for everyone to see.   Following is your first response: -------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Eternal Judgment In a message dated 3/26/2005 11:33:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Think orange for JD's latest reply, this post. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you are comfortable thinking you can keep your sin and still be considered righteous I feel sorry for you. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I am comfortable thinking that YOU can keep your sin and still be considered righteous, Terry. Woe to them that are at ease in Zion (Amos 6:1, Exodus 19:5); How so JD? you shouldn�t be comfortable with anything of the sort, that is if you are a genuine believer. Have you cut 1 John 3:7 out of your Bible? The above type of thinking is �stinkin� thinkin� You, my dear, have completely rejected the gospel of grace, choosing to be judged by the degree of righteousness, personal righteousness, you can gender as you seek to obey the legal system Peter saw as "burdensome."  Your quote of I Jo 3:7 ignores the meaning and implication of the word "practice."  You refuse to allow the first chapter of this letter to have anything to do with determining the context of the 3rd chapter.   You have not a clue as to what it means to believe that "faith has been reckoned as righteousness."   Ever knowing and never learning.   Isn't that how you have put it to me in the past.  Well, back at you.  -----------------------------------------------   Then Judy responded to one of your posts in the following way: ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Eternal Judgment   On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 08:16:03 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You slice and dice all the time, Judy.   And you like using that phrase "in balance and in context"  as if you actually have some kind of hermeneutic as you "study" the written word.  Amazing.     jt: I have the counsel and help of the one who "inspired" all Scripture which is even more amazing than any kind of hermeneutic JD - imagine that, it happens just as Jesus said it would ..   Referencing I Jo 3:7,  and while you speak of "context"   (who knows what "balance" means to you  --  it means nothing to me) , you need to allow the first chapter of this first letter of John to play a role in establishing the context for 3:7.      jt: Manipulation won't cut it JD - You need to allow scripture to say what the author intended - which is that mouthing righteousness is a waste of time and means nothing. The one that does righteousness is righteous.  Why would you have a problem with this?  Makes all kinds of sense to me.   We are called to a life of holiness, without blame and above reproach.   But such is a growth process  --  a spiritual growth process  --  and until you "have arrived,"  you are dealing with the sin issue at some level.   As I have said on previous occasions  --  before Christ, I practiced sin and committed acts of righteousness;  after Christ in my life, I practice righteousness and commit acts of sin.      jt: The difference between us JD is that I am not "comfortable" with sin, I hate it (whether it is in myself or in others). Make sure you get it right JD.  I hate sin.  I do not hate people.    It was Paul who said that we continue to fall short of His glory.    jt: He said "all have" past tense JD.  Paul gives no license to continue in sin that grace may abound. No excuses. We are supposed to be co-laborers with God, not working against Him. We are to love what He loves and hate what He hates.    It was John who wrote the caustion in I john 1:  "If you say that you are possessing no sin, you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you.    jt: Only if we are claiming to be righteous while we are ATST "comfortable" with sin - this is being a doubleminded man.    It is a written fact that if we could be counted as righteous through personal victory, salvation would be ours as a matter of debt  (Ro 4:4).    jt: Whoever wrote that was ignorant; personal victory is only possible because of the Cross. We overcome in Jesus name to the glory of God the Father but we are the ones who must take a stand for righteousness or it will not happen.   In I Jo 3, the practice of righteousness is equated with the "love of the brethren" (v14) and the keeping of the commandments (vv 22-24) which are two-fold: belief in Jesus and the love of the brethren.  Three considerations in this 3rd chapter, Judy.  You make the mistake of believing that one consideration modifies the others, when, in fact, each is a different way of saying the same thing.      jt: I agree, violating the "royal law" (which is love) is sin; just as transgressing God's moral law is sin. I don't have a problem with any part of 1 John.  I have a problem with being comfortable with and walking daily in sin.   If this were not true, we make John to be a liar before he gets through with the chapter.   Verse 6 says: No one who abides in Him sins.  Verse 14 says:  he who does not love abides in death.  V 24 says And the one who keeps His commandments abides in Him.  (and these very commandments are presented in the preceding VERSE :  belief in His name and love of the brethren.    jt: Amen and Amen.... It's impossible to do the above being comfortable in sin.    John has already made it clear (chapter one) that we continue in the sin problem, that confessing is a continual need on our part, and that the blood of Christ is a continuing event in our lives.    jt: 1 John 1 says "IF we say that we have no sin (when we have) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (obviously when we continue in sin we lose our righteousness in Christ and become unrighteous until we deal with it). IF we say that we have not sinned (when we have) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.  This does not conflict with the reality of 1 John 3 that the one who does righteousness is righteous.