Romans 8:4 is not talking about a righteousness that comes from obeying
the Law, whether with the Spirit or otherwise. Rather, it is talking
about a righteousness that is attributed to us because
of the events of the Incarnation and the cross.
RED FLAG!!
Speaking of red flags
-- what about establishing your doctrine about the Levitical Law
with absolutely nothing but your imagination -- not that
imagination is bad ??
jt: Exactly what is this "imaginative" doctrine
about the Levitical Law that you refer to JD? Romans 8:4-8 says
nothing about any "incarnation" it reads: "That the righteousness of
the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the
flesh, but after
the Spirit.
Whoa there Neilly !!! verse 4 actually
reads ?that the righteous requirements of The Law ?? and what
are those requirements? Well, in a practical sense, these
retirements all have to do with Christ and His sacrifice. (see v
3)
jt: Vs.3 does not refer to Calvary where Christ was
made an eternal Sacrifice for sin. He fulfilled the Law in his daily life by
walking in love and obedience first toward God and then toward others and
this is the example that He left for us to follow (1 Peter 2:24).
See how twisted your "incarnational" doctrine is JD? If Romans
8:4 referred to Calvary then the righteousness of the law would never ever
be fulfilled in us or anyone else because He is the only
one who qualified for that ministry. No,
the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk after the spirit
and who do not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
So Christ
performed so that the righteous requirements of the Law (things we could not
or did not do) might fulfilled in us. This has nothing to do
with being righteous by right of our own doing -- it was Christ
on the cross that made us righteous !!! Walk in the
flesh (verse) is given definition in verse 54, Judy. Who
are those who walk in the flesh? Those who do the deeds of the
flesh? Nope. It is those who set their MINDS ON THE
FLESH.
jt: We may not have been able to do them before the
cross because of the weakness of the fallen flesh nature but we can do them
now because we have received "dunamis" or power from on high. The ones
who Christ made righteous are those who "DO" righteousness (1 John 3:7) not
those who have conventions and talk about the "incarnation" - The flesh is
not a mindset only JD, the flesh has
deeds also and they are listed in Galatians 5:19; have you not heard the
following saying. Sow a thought, reap an
act, Sow an act, reap a habit, Sow a habit, reap a lifestyle?
Who are those who are of the Spirit? Those, in this context, who
do spiritual THINGS? No again. It is those who set their
minds on the Spirit. Romans 12, therefore, speaks of the
renewing of our minds -- precisely because of this (new)
definition. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things
of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and
peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject
to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the
flesh
can not please God"
jt: Yes and.....
Well, a hearty AMEN
to this !! Paul continues his theme and purpose in this
8th chapter. Continuing to speak of what we think rather than
how we act.
jt: Evil thoughts lead to evil actions and
those who live in Galatians 5:19 DO NOT inherit the Kingdom of God no matter
what doctrine they are holding in their right hand...
Remember, in 7:25, he just got through saying that we do not ACT
so great??? with the FLESH we serve the law of sin and death.
Where is the hope? It is in the definition
!!! there are two levels of carna l involvement: one is
that which has to do with activity and the other is that which has to do
with the mind. In Romans 1:24, they were given over (by God) to
the lusts of their??????? flesh? No ? to the lusts of their
heart (an I see heart and mind as the same thing
in
scripture). Disobedience to parents is on this list of those
given over to the lusts of their heart. It is one thing to be
disobedient to your parents; it is quite another matter to be given
over, in your mind, to disobeying your parents. In the former
case, you commit sin. The later case, you are given over, you
are completely controlled by your desires in a particular area
(and there are 26 of them in this list.)
jt: Are we straining at gnats here JD? Lust
is lust and the fruit of lust is more lust; does not matter where it is
found, it always spreads like yeast in bread dough. Romans 1 describes
the gentile nations who God gave over to fleshly desires because this
was their life choice and He will always give us over to our own
desires in the end.
How do I know?
(a) Because this
the very point made in the preceding verse (that would be verse
3)
jt: Verse 3 says that by sending His
Son in the likeness of flesh, condemned sin in the flesh; it says nothing
about
any incarnation.
Stop with this empty criticism,
Judy. Your own people at BSF speak of the Incarnation
. It is heresy to deny it.
jt: BSF speaks of the incarnation as historical
fact - which in fact it is; they have never made a doctrine of it which
denies the judgment of God against sin in individuals and negates the
ongoing work of sanctification in the life of the
believer.
