Dave,
This is what I have learned. I believe it to be so, but I may not have
all accurately stated all of the details. You often tell me I am wrong, that
I don't understand it as a mormon would, and I should ask a mormon if I want
to know what mormons believe. I did as you requested, but instead of
correcting me, if indeed I have erred, you try to make a big deal out of it.
If I have not erred, no foul? If I have, then correct me.
Perry
From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Seeming inconsistancy
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 19:52:19 -0700
* I am not positive about a couple of them*
DAVEH: Then why would you try to teach somebody else something you are not
sure about, Perry? Do you think passing on false or misunderstood
information helps others understand truth?
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
Terry, it is a lot more convoluted that you are imagining. Here are
perhaps a couple of points that have not been revealed to you.* I am not
positive about a couple of them*, so Dave, feel free to correct me if I
understand this incorrectly. (If you don't, I am sure Blaine will :-)
- they will be able to have multiple wives, maybe thousands, and a man can
be sealed to more than one woman on earth, and more women can seal
themselves to them after they have died.
- they will procreate with these wives to populate their own planets, just
like their current god did with his thousands of spirit wives to produce
the offspring of the earth, meaning you, Terry, were first a spiritual
offspring, and brother of satan and jesus, of the mormon god and one of
thousands of Mrs. gods, and then were inserted into a baby at some point
in your human existence,
- unmarried women on earth can seal themselves to deceased mormon men (or
at least to one).
- mormon women must be called from the graves by the man to whom they are
sealed if they expect to get resurrected to the third heaven, provided
they have fulfilled all of the reauired works, called temple ordnances.
Amusing anecdote: My mother-in-law, who is a mormon, became one long after
she had divorced my father-in-law (and both of these events were long
before I met either one of them). He knows nothing about mormonism, but
found out from a friend that if a man and woman are sealed on earth, they
live together eternally after death. Once he found this out he drove over
to her house yelling at her that she better not seal herself to him
because he did not want to spend the rest of eternity with her!
Perry
From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Seeming inconsistancy
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 17:48:58 -0700
Terry Clifton wrote:
I understand your answer, Dave, but I have problems with it. What
brought about this comment by Jesus was the possibility of more than one
wife here on earth. If your first wife dies, you are free to take
another. We know that God's plan for man has always been one man for
one woman for life.
DAVEH: Upon what basis do you draw that conclusion, Terry? As you must
know, many of the Lord's prophets had more than one wife. Do you think
his servants, the prophets, did not understand God's plan?
If that is His desire here, then it would be His desire in Heaven, *if
*there were marriages in Heaven. That creates a problem for the man
that has married two or more women who preceeded him in death. The
problem being, who would be the one wife?
DAVEH: Had they been sealed (bound) on earth by somebody who had the
keys as did Peter (Mt 16:19), all would have been sealed (bound) in
heaven.
Because of this, Jesus has proclaimed that there will be no marriage
in Heaven,
DAVEH: Read vs 30 again.........
*For in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage,
but are as the angels of God in heaven.*
.......I would understand that to mean marriage will not take place in
heaven. It does not say that marriage would not exist in heaven. I
think you are reading something into Scripture that it does not say,
Terry.
except the marriage of the Church to the Lamb, the King, Jesus Himself.
It solves the problem of multiple marriages and it solves the problem of
what to do with a believer whose spouse has gone to Hell while the
believer entered Heaven. No husband? No problem. We are married to the
Lord.
DAVEH: Seems to me that literally taking it the way you are, it would
create another major problem. Do you want to be married to a male,
Terry? Why do many Christians fight tooth and nail against same sex
marriage in this life, only to believe they are going to be married to a
same sex partner after this life? Seems pretty screwy to me, unless one
views it from my perspective.
I think you misunderstand what the Bible teaches concerning this. Your
view simply presents too many obstacles to be workable.
DAVEH: It works for me, Terry. If God had no problem with polygamous
marriages in the OT, I don't argue that marriage is only for one
man/woman. If the Lord tells us we can seal up things here on earth that
will last past the barrier we call death, I feel no reason to doubt that
can apply to marriage and hesitate to deny the power of God grant us that
power.
As a Mormon, I believe families can be forever. It is a main
doctrine of our Church. When Protestants (and some TTers) tell me that
sexual identity does not exist in heaven, and that loving family
relationships end upon death, I've got to wonder why God brought us to
earth, gave us the the challenge of having a loving and secure family
only to rip it all apart before we enter heaven. Doesn't make sense to
me.
Thanks for your thoughts though.
DAVEH: You are welcome, Terry.
Terry
Dave Hansen wrote:
DAVEH: And good afternoon to you, Brother Terry! :-)
Let me quote vs 30......
*For in the resurrection, they neither marry, nor are given in
marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.*
........Note that he is talking about during/after the resurrection
period, folks will will not have the opportunity to get married. It
does not address those who have been married and sealed in mortality
for eternity. That may not make much sense, so let me elaborate a
bit....
Terry....when you were married, did the minister use language
similar to the familiar "to death do you part" that is commonly used in
many Christian marriages? If so, does that seem to you to be a divorce
clause of sorts? IOW, upon your spouse's demise, do you not become
unmarried, and are thereby eligible to marry again if you so choose?
Assuming you've been nodding your head in agreement with me so far,
then your earthly marriage was for time only, and not applicable to
life after death....agreed?
From my LDS perspective, marriages can be of two types....*time
only while in mortality*, as I discussed above and secondly for *time
and eternity,* meaning those who enter into such a covenant are sealed
together beyond death. Their matrimonial relationship does not end
upon the death of either spouse, but continues to be recognized beyond
the veil of death.
We believe that the Lord gave power to some of his servants (like
Peter) to form eternal unions on earth........
*And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and
whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and
whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. * Mt
16:19
......that will be recognized in heaven and will extend beyond the
barrier we call death. As Jesus was explaining in the passages you
mentioned, such sealings won't be in effect in heaven if they don't
first happen on earth.
Does that answer your question, Terry?
Note to Perry: Does my above explanation draw another criticism
for preaching Mormonism?
Terry Clifton wrote:
Good morning, mister Hansen. I have a serious request. Can you
explain to me how Mormons will have wives in Heaven when Jesus plainly
teaches in Matt 22:29-33 that there will be no marriages in Heaven, no
husbands and wives?
Thank you.
Terry
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
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