Re: [TruthTalk] Belief

[Dave Hansen]

David Miller wrote: DaveH wrote: ...I do understand your reluctance to accept my understanding of the passage, DavidM. With what you know about LDS theology, does it not fit in? May I ask how you perceive its message? I think the message concerns Jesus fulfilling that which the Father revealed to him as his plan and work. He was constantly cooperating with the Father and his direction as given to him by the Holy Spirit. I do not think it means in any way that the Father had already done these things in a previous existence. DAVEH:   Your explanation almost gives me the impression you view them as two Gods.   Don't get me wrong...I understand you still consider them one God. DaveH wrote: Since Lucifer and his followers were ejected from Heaven, temptation does not exist there. On the contrary, Lucifer and one-third of the angels fell into sin. They were tempted in heaven. Temptation is not geographical, but as James says, it comes because of the heart. A man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust and enticed. DAVEH:   Then.....May I presume you believe free agency existed in the pre-mortal existence? As a man, Jesus had this lust within his flesh and could be tempted. However, prior to becoming a man, he existed as the Logos and could not be tempted either. As man, Jesus conquered temptation, but as God in his prior existence, he was removed from temptation and could not be tempted. DAVEH:K   Thanx for your explanation of how you perceive this. DaveH wrote: And, were our Father to encounter temptation at some point ... Impossible from my perspective. There is no shadow of darkness within him anywhere. He can never be tempted. DaveH wrote: ... (perhaps if he were to visit one of his prophets on earth as an example), .... Not sure what you mean by this. DAVEH:   Is the lack of God's ability to be tempted strictly due to his location (no temptations exist in heaven now that Lucifer is gone), or is it due to God's nature.....IOW, IF the Lord were to confront a temptation in person, it would have absolutely no effect on him due to his nature.   I hope that makes sense. DAVEH:K ??? Are you suggesting he was not God at that point? He was God in terms of identity, but he was not in the form of God in terms of the glory associated with God. As Phil. 2 expounds for us, he did not consider being in the form of God something to be held onto, but he emptied himself and took on the form of a servant. He was made lower than the angels, a man. This is the only way in which he could experience suffering and temptation and illustrate for us that his nature is able to conquer all of this. DAVEH: Hmmmmmm....That is foreign to my way of thinking. As I see it, Jesus was God of the OT, and becoming mortal did not change that at all. As God of the OT, he never hungered, never slept, never got tired, never was tempted, never experienced death. But being made a man, he now experienced hunger, he slept, he cried, he got tired, he was tempted, and he experienced death. A lot changed with him becoming mortal. DaveH wrote: To me, that Jesus was lesser than his Father, or even the angels does not abdicate his power. Had he wanted to crush Satan beneath his toes, he had the power to do it. Even the devil pointed out to him, he still had the power and did not have to suffer. His power was not inherent, but it was in his authority to call upon his heavenly Father to send forth legions of angels. DAVEH:   Hmmmmmm.....That almost sounds like you are denying Jesus had the power to heal the blind, raise the dead and do a multitude of other miracles on his own.  Are you suggesting that as a mortal, Jesus did not have the power to do such without the assistance of angels??? His power came through his anointing, which is why he is called Christ or Messiah, which means Anointed One. Jesus was a man anointed with the Holy Ghost. This is how he lived and ministered among us. He did not live as God but as a man anointed by the Holy Ghost. DAVEH:   I find that interesting, though a bit surprising from my perspective.  Thanx for explaining it as you understand it. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.