Ahhhh. See, Debbie, what did I tell you? Americans are from the Bigfoot only crowd :)
Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 9:18 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief > Debbie, suppose that you are blind and laid on the operating table, and a > Sasquatch walked in and you thought it was the surgeon, and you trusted the > Sasquatch. You would die on the table. > > >From: "Debbie Sawczak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > >To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief > >Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 22:12:51 -0400 > > > >Assuming we have a correct understanding of Jesus and the Mormons don't, > >then if on that basis alone we are saved and they aren't, it is our > >understanding which has saved us. Like Bill (in a recent post), I can't > >hold with that. > > > >But the question was different, it was whether the actual object of my > >faith/belief (putting myself in the place of a Mormon) can still be the > >real Jesus even if I have so much wrong information about him. It doesn't > >seem impossible, given analogies one could invent: if I am blind and think > >the surgeon is a Sasquatch, but I still lie down on the operating table > >with full confidence, am I trusting the surgeon? The quesiont cannot be > >just about what's in our heads and what's out there. With Jesus it is a > >matter of taking active steps, and him doing stuff to us. But is it best > >characterized as a one-shot deal, or a relationship that develops? And if > >the latter, then maybe the proper question is, Can this relationship, this > >interaction be going on and I the Mormon continue to have such wrong ideas > >about him? I find that harder to say Yes to, but I do not know. If what we > >others believe about Jesus is true, it seems to me that a genuine > >relationship with the real Person could not evoke less than worship. That > >is the stumbling block for me with Mormonism: worship. Can you worship > >without knowing it? (It was only an analogy, but maybe the Christian life > >is after all a single loooong surgery, at the end of which I can see, and > >realize the surgeon is not a Sasquatch. In due course, everyone will > >worship...) > > > >Lance, it may ultimately be the same question as Why aren't believers' > >lives changed more, if they have the Holy Spirit within them? Why don't we > >all agree about Scripture if we have the Holy Spirit within us? (I can > >predict some people's answer to this.) > > > >Debbie > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> > >Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 4:12 PM > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief > > > > > > > Lance, > > > > > > I agree that "Every christian believer believes 'through' an errant > > > framework". But how errant is too errant? Is there a line that can be > > > drawn? In the end either we are saved or we are not. Was our framework > > > "too" errant? Was our image of Jesus too far from the real Jesus? If we > > > are "too" errant for salvation, but did not know it, are we saved? These > > > are mighty questions. > > > > > > To be totally honest, I cannot say with complete certainty that > >mormons > > > are not saved. Maybe their degree of errancy in their image of God and > > > Christ falls within the "saved" camp. However, from what I read in the > > > Bible, I believe that they are on the "too errant" side. That is why I > > > spend the time I do on TT doing what I do. If I did not care I would be > > > silent. If I thought that they were "in the fold", I would say to them > > > "Welcome, brothers and sisters." > > > > > > Perry > > > > > >>From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >>To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> > > >>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief > > >>Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:28:13 -0400 > > >> > > >>Interesting! (there's that word again) Every christian believer believes > > >>'through' an errant framework. One may believe in a geocentric universe > >or > > >>a flat earth and, live out a fairly normal life. May one believe > >'through' > > >>a Mormon Jesus (assuming this to be a totally aberrant Jesus) into Jesus > > >>as He is? I don't know. What think YE Perry? > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: Bill Taylor > > >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >> Sent: June 26, 2005 15:06 > > >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief > > >> > > >> > > >> Hi Dave, > > >> > > >> We would probably have to go into some further detail as to what this > > >> word "salvation" means to us before my answer can suffice -- or perhaps > > >> even be understood (and that is up to you) -- but the short answer is > > >> this: "yes, the only requirement for entrance to heaven" is salvation > >-- > > >> with one caveat: in Jesus Christ. > > >> > > >> I believe that at the point in which death entered the world, > >salvation > > >> was necessary in order to receive eternal life. Anyone who is mortal > >and > > >> has died or will die on this earth must necessarily be resurrected > >(which > > >> is the pivotal aspect in my view of "salvation"; i.e., death being > > >> swallowed up in victory) in order to live forever. In this view, then, > > >> salvation is that which stands between death and an eternal life in > > >> "heaven." > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: Dave Hansen > > >> To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org > > >> Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 1:03 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief > > >> > > >> > > >> DAVEH: Do you believe salvation is the only requirement for > > >> entrance to heaven, Bill? (BTW....I would be most interested to hear > > >> the thoughts of other TTers on this as well.) > > >> > > >> Bill Taylor wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> A very wise friend of mine is keen on opining that there will > >be > > >> many Christians who hold grossly heretical beliefs, who upon their > > >> passing will nevertheless find themselves securely in heaven. I agree > > >> with him: if entrance into heaven is predicated upon right and only > >right > > >> thinking, then I suppose heaven will be a mighty lonely place. > > >> > > >> Bill > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>-- > > >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >>Dave Hansen > > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>http://www.langlitz.com > > >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > >>If you wish to receive > > >>things I find interesting, > > >>I maintain six email lists... > > >>JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, > > >>STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS. > > > > > > > > > ---------- > > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > > > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > > http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > > > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
