From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Clifton
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 8:09 AM
To:[email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of Christ
Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 8:09 AM
To:
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of Christ
Then I ask again, John. Why MUST (imperative) you become a new creature in Christ?
Are you putting "become a new creature" in the same category of commands as , eat, sit, roll and do what I just said !!!!!
"Terry, I want to become a new creature ................... NOW."
Is that what we are doing, here?
So I say to my son --- "Russ, I got something I want you to do."
"Whats that, Dad -- but when you get through with that, I need a little advice on how
to finish this pony- wall.................. wht do you want me to do?"
"Aahh, I want you to become a good carpenter!"
" --------------------------------------------------------------what?"
"You know, become a good carpenter."
"Dad -- you're turning into an old lady. But I will do my best. Now, can you
help me with this wall?"
Why must you deny self and follow Him? Why must you go and sin no more? To ignore these questions is to preach an easy salvation, free fire insurance. On these terms, even the devil goes to Heaven, because he believes. It is not a narrow path. Obedience is optional. Just do a little something once in a while and God will find you worthy.
Where in the world did you get the idea that God is an irrisistable influence.
Satan has resisted Him since being cast out of Heaven. Billions of people resist Him every day. I resisted Him over half my life. When some resisted the words of Jesus, He simply moved on. He did not overpower them. When Israel
To paraphrase, here is the way I see it, put as simply as possible. "Choose you this day who you will serve. If you are my servant, you do it my way. Deny self. Do as I say to do. There are rewards for obedient servants who love their Master." Today is the day of salvation, not a little today and a little next month. There may not be a next month.
If this is anywhere close to accurate, it leaves no room for the part time Christian who may or may not some day surrender his/her all to Christ.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
"If you are simply saying that He calls us to follow while we are yet filthy sinners, I am with you. You don't have to clean up your act for God to want you in His family, but you ain't gonna be in the family if you stay the way He found you. I would hope you would agree."
What gets us saved keeps us saved. If faith apart from obedience to law, if an exchange of faith for personal righteousness, if death on the cross while we were yet sinners applies to us today and again in the future, if we are , in deed, saved by His effort saves as a sovereign effort -- then he saves us (accepts us) just as we are. This business of "if you stay the way He found you" is an impossibility!!!
When we speak of "kingdom theology," it is my understanding that we speak of the sovereign rule of God and His workings in our lives He becomes the irresistible influence.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as long as you maintain any kind of relationship with Him. I have told my kids (and anyone else who will listen) if you will continue to pray, even once in a while, if you will read your Bible even a few times a year, if you will consider His will even on some occasions, His influence will work His eventual will in you. Obedience, including the victory over the various manifestations of sin, is ALWAYS IN RESPONSE TO THE INFLUENCE OF THE INDWELLING <
SPAN class=correction id="">CHRIST in our lives. That never changes. The prodigal son and his brother were never right in that story --------------- never. The "repentance" of the prodigal" was shallow and motivated by selfish need and not much more. They were part of the family. They can leave the family but they cannot stop being sons. to leave the home,. of course, is to move down the road of personal destruction -- that is not being denied. But God does not kick us out of the family -- we leave.
Jd
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Clifton <wabbits1234@earthlink.net>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 23:05:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Apologetic for the eternal sonship of Christ
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Terry,
Here is the point of this new best seller. Of course God does not have to do anything, I suppose, but if he is going to accept anyone into His Kingdom without turning them into robots, He has no choice but to accept them as they are. It is a false gospel, IMO, that preaches otherwise -- but more than false - it is unreal. It is for this reason that it is said that He died for us while we were yet sinners.. You have written some good, excellent, posts of late on this very subject. If you disagree with me -- well, I am not getting my point acreoss becasue I fully agree with those several posts.
I may see "sin" as having more categories of _expression_ than you, I don't know. So God is without choice (if we are to be included) -- He is "Choiceless" and the world is jsut that -- a tasteless place without Him.
JD
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Maybe I'm doing some fuzzy thinking here, but it seems to me that if God accepts us as we are, there would be no need to become a new creature. Why would it be that we MUST be born again to be part of the kingdom? I see turning from willful sin (repentance ) as the first step in becoming that new creature. If you are simply saying that He calls us to follow while we are yet filthy sinners, I am with you. You don't have to clean up your act for God to want you in His family, but you ain't gonna be in the family if you stay the way He found you.
I would hope you would agree.
Terry
Terry
