Re: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14

[Terry Clifton]

John, do you see a big difference in the terms "Born again" and "New creature in Christ"?   My own thinking is that it would be hard to be a NEW creature without being born again. Terry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:   My argument was quite biblical.  When you want to honestly discuss the issue, let me know.   This post is not that effort.     JD       -----Original Message----- From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com> To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:41:47 -0400 Subject: [TruthTalk] John 16:13,14 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] It is not that we do not or cannot understand.  Rather, it is that we do understand but reject the message.     jt: This is interesting JD - what's wrong with the message? It's Bible.  You must be Born Again. Raised from spiritual death to spiritual life IOW by hearing His Voice and not hardening your heart. No man comes to Christ except the Father draw him  --    jt: Right!  God draws men by way of the "foolishness of preaching"  They hear God's Word and the Spirit works in their hard old heart after telling the spirit clouding their mind to "shut up" God being involved in the life of all who are dealing with the Christ issue.    jt: So what is the Christ issue?  Aside from His Word that is? Philip 2:13  "...... for it is God at work in you ..." is a statement of fact for us all  ----------   saved and unsaved.     jt: Nonsense. The unsaved have the devil working in them (see Ephesians 2:1) If we we are "lost," we are so without excuse!    jt: Yes because it is God's will that all come to the knowledge of truth and He will make a way for them to hear. God in Christ has broken down all the barriers ( read: reconciled all things unto Himself)   jt: The above is objective truth.   and has a presence within each of us (different from a filling of the Spirit).    jt: The above is not truth at all it is presumption - how is God present in those who reject Him? The lost reject this reconciliation and God's "draw" within.    jt: The lost have been estranged from the womb and they reject His voice just like Israel did in the wilderness - they harden their hearts and stiffen their necks. We are probably in agreement  --  but with different words????   jt: I don't think so JD - this is a "great gulf" - it's more than just semantics.  We have two different gospels here.