Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death

Sat, 30 Jul 2005 01:15:09 -0700

Of course they did JD, and some even explain what they mean.  We have Jesus discourse with Nicodemus
in John 3 where he juxtaposes spiritual with physical birth; and an object lesson is given for this in Gal 4:29
where two of Abrahams sons - one born of flesh and the other born of the spirit are contrasted. The child of flesh
persecuting the one born of the spirit just as the flesh always strives against the spirit.  1 Peter 1:23 speaks of
being born again not of corruptible seed but of incorruptible.   So what is the problem???  Water Baptism
alone may symbolize something but Mark 16:16 spells it out.  The one who believes and is baptized is saved.
If they believe not they are damned.  Baptism is not mentioned in part B because it is possible for someone to
be baptized and be damned.  judyt
 
 
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 01:07:24 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I asked for examples of those who heard these words of Christ and were sent into all the world  (the 12 apostles).   They and the other evangelists, never used these very words  -  you must be born again in order to be saved.  Never.   Why?   We have thrown water baptism out as that sacrament that symbolizes our inclusion in Christ and have preached "the sinners prayer" as if this were a biblical teaching.   I would expect that if our doctrine were thiers of so many years ago, that we would talk or act like them on some level.  JD 
 
 

From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

JD, I give you scripture (You must be born again, for example) and then you tell me it doesn?t count because there was a better translation meaning another thing entirely, or it was a nonbiblical term, or then you don?t care if it?s a biblical or not as long as it?s a biblical concept, or?????izzy
 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
So, no scripture.  Thanks for the admission.   Outer space?     John 3:21  He who does the truth COMES TO THE LIGHT, that his deeds might be clearly seen,  that they have been done in God." 
 
In the above,  "He who does the truth"  is complimented by  "...they have been done in God."  We are ALREADY indwelt with the Spirit.   That is part of the reconciliation of all things.   Our acceptance of Christ,  our receiving of this gift is our turning to the LIGHT (repentance).   When we do that, it becomes  manifestly clear that God has been there all along.   This verse makes it clear that we are doing the truth BEFORE we come to the light and that this LIGHT reveals that all our works HAVE BEEN DONE in God. 
 
 JD

-----Original Message-----
From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:22:21 -0500
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death
"from below" is the alternative to "from above"--physical birth on earth.  Your last sentence is from outer space.  iz
 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 8:17 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death
 
And where is this "born from below" in the text,  or does this matter to you?  
 
The "birth from above"  or "new birth"  brings the manifestation of Christ into our lives.   And what does this manifestation accomplish  --   it reveals that God has been our partner all along !!  (John 3:21).
 
JD
 

-----Original Message-----
From: ShieldsFamily <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 04:21:20 -0500
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Spiritual death
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Footnotes in the New King James and NASV show born "from above" to be a viable translation and my Brown/Comfort Greek interlinear English translation actually uses "born from above" rather than "born again." 
 
JD
==========================================================================
 Terry wrote:  Born again is correct. 
 
Izzy responds: If you were born "from below" the first time, and "born from above" the second time, wasn't the second time born "again"?  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

                                              judyt
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,
               are changed into the same image from glory to glory,
               even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (2 Corinthians 3:18)

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