> Debbie wrote:
>> To your question about the Light
>> --not from deep within myself.
>
> Interesting answer. I would like to hear more elaboration on this. Does
> God bring light to you from outside yourself? Do you hear him audibly, or
> what exactly do you mean?
>> To your question about the Light
>> --not from deep within myself.
>
> Interesting answer. I would like to hear more elaboration on this. Does
> God bring light to you from outside yourself? Do you hear him audibly, or
> what exactly do you mean?
Similar questions about how it
actually happens may be asked, of course, about light that purports to come from
deep within. How do you experience light coming from within yourself? Do
you feel a flush moving up from your chest into your head? Is there a glow under
your skin? I do not attach conclusive importance
to our subjective experience of the process, and anyway it is hard to
describe such things, as I'm sure you can imagine. Metaphors are necessary. But
to try to satisfy your curiosity, and in the sincere hope that God
will be glorified: in my case, I had plumbed all my spiritual resources
and come up empty; even what I had acquired from a Christian
upbringing turned out to be nothing but dead words (revelation is not
information, you see). I could not pray, meditate, or will myself into faith or
a vital understanding; the truth was opaque. I was like one of the Pevensie kids
going into the wardrobe looking for Narnia and finding nothing but coats and the
back of the wardrobe. I was very conscious, when real faith and recognition
came, of being given it (as passage into Narnia is given).
Yes, it really was like being approached by an invisible someone who
knocked me over with a wave of love. Non nobis, domine, sed nomine tuo da
gloriam.
> Debbie wrote:
>> I was considering the verse from Proverbs quite
>> thoroughly, in fact, and thinking about its other
>> half, which does not seem to give this "candle"
>> the function you assign to it. Also, the relation of the candle to Yahweh is not
>> unambiguous--at least in the English, and I know
>> no Hebrew; it is not obvious to me whether God
>> is the source or the user of the candle.
>
> Huh?
>> I was considering the verse from Proverbs quite
>> thoroughly, in fact, and thinking about its other
>> half, which does not seem to give this "candle"
>> the function you assign to it. Also, the relation of the candle to Yahweh is not
>> unambiguous--at least in the English, and I know
>> no Hebrew; it is not obvious to me whether God
>> is the source or the user of the candle.
>
> Huh?
Read the below. If anything, the candle/lamp/whatever
seems to be showing God the person, not the other way around. And no, I don't
profess to be sure of the meaning of this verse, so I'm not being dogmatic
about that interpretation, I'm just saying the verse does not argue
unambiguously that we can arrive at the truth without revelation. I think
it's interesting that the word candle is used (or lamp in some
translations), not the light or flame itself. Maybe the candle or lamp does show
the person who she really is in the sight of God, but is something that
gets lit by the Lord--i.e., there is nothing shining until he lights it.
Hm?
>
> Proverbs 20:27
> (27) The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward
> parts of the belly.
>
> Have you considered this passage in relation to 1 Cor. 2:10-11 and John
> 7:38?
>
>
> Proverbs 20:27
> (27) The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward
> parts of the belly.
>
> Have you considered this passage in relation to 1 Cor. 2:10-11 and John
> 7:38?
>
John 7:38 is given explicit interpretation by the
apostle in the very next verse. Rivers of living water flowing from within
refers to the believer being indwelt by the Holy Spirit (a state of affairs,
moreover, that was still anticipated, since the Spirit had not yet
been given); no problem for me. Does this verse teach that rivers of living
water (equivalent to understanding of the truth, since that's what's in
question in this discussion) are inherent within every human, before an
encounter with Christ? No.
As for I Cor. 2:10-11, it too supports what I am
saying! It talks about things (v 9) which have not entered our hearts ("things
beyond the mind of man" in the translation I am reading) until the Spirit has revealed them to us. We can know our own
spirit, according to this passage, but none of us knows the thoughts of
God--only the Spirit of God does, hence he has to reveal them to us. Isn't this
what I've been saying?
About conscience: the conscience of devout Hindus I
have met tells them they ought to have sacrificed to Hanuman that morning. The
conscience of some Muslims tells them they ought to give their lives to blow up
infidels. What did Paul's conscience prompt him to do before he met Christ on
the road to Damascus?
That's all I have to say on this for now.
Debbie
