You are asking the wrong question, as I wonder about these things myself from time to time. Can a true Believer have a demon? Be "oppressed"? Be possessed? What's the difference??? I'd like to hear other opinions. izzy
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Taylor Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:45 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us Are all illnesses "demonic" in your opinion -- whether physical or mental or a combination of both? Martin Luther was a textbook bi-polar. Do you think that precluded him from being a "Christian," as in a true believer? Just curious what you think, Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:38 PM Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us > Really interesting analogies, Judy and David. I'll think about that a lot. > By the way, the enemies in the land comment leads me to ask if anyone knows > what is the underlying problem with people who are commonly labeled > "Bi-polar"--up one day and low the next, and seem to me to always be looking > for someone to be angry with. They are commonly treated with lithium. I've > been around someone like that the last couple of weeks (who says she is a > Christian by the way), and it seems demonic to me. izzy > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Miller > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 12:00 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us > > David Miller wrote: > >> The concept that the Holy Spirit is working to convict > >> believers of various sins, such as stealing, lust, > >> covetousness, etc. is dangerous. > > Judy wrote: > > Why do you see this as dangerous David? > > Because people confuse the voice of the Spirit with their own inner > convictions. Furthermore, they misinterpret the work of the Holy Spirit, > and therefore ascribe works to him which are not his. This leads to error. > > Judy wrote: > > Being conformed to the "image of Christ" > > does not happen overnight. It is a process, > > just as salvation itself is a process of past, > > present, future. > > It depends which image of Christ you are talking about. Are you talking > about him in his now glorified state? You bet that is a process. Are you > talking about Christ as an infant lying in a manger? No, that is not a > process. That is an event called being born again. > > Judy wrote: > > An object lesson is given us in scripture ... when > > after Israel celebrated the passover and God led > > them supernaturally to the promised land. They > > were instructed to go in and take the land which > > He would give to them little by little. He did > > not clear the land all at one time because they would > > not be strong enough to hold it. (Exodus 23:29,30) > > Good object lesson, but look at it closely. They were no longer slaves in > Egypt at this point. Once they crossed that Red Sea and the waters killed > the Egyptians that were pursuing them, they were saved. They had > deliverance from bondage to Egypt, which represents our deliverance from the > > bondage of sin to this world system. What they lacked was possessing the > promised land, the kingdom of God. This is where faith comes in, and this > is where the process of growth is important. > > We are immediately delivered, but love still is perfected. I may not sin, > but that does not mean that I cannot love better. Yesterday I may have > helped someone who came looking to me for help, but today I might seek out > those who need help. Yesterday, I might have known how to lead someone to a > > hospital to get help, but today I might pray for him to be healed instantly > and thereby better help him in his situation. Jesus at one time did no > miracles, but his obedience and love were perfected at that time when he did > > minister in miracles and healed the sick, and ultimately gave his life a > ransom for all, the ultimate expression of love which he did when he was > more than 33 years old, not when he was 5 years old. > > Judy wrote: > > Likewise when we surrender our lives to Christ > > we also have enemies on the land (our heart) ... > > You have the wrong analogy here, Judy. The enemies of our own heart were > when we were in Egypt, or the unbelief when God tells us to possess his > kingdom and we say such is impossible. The enemies in the land, the > Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, and the Hittites, and the > Perizzites, and the Rephaims, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the > Girgashites, and the Jebusites... these enemies represent not defects of our > > own heart, but enemies in the air, principalities and powers and rulers of > darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places which inspire people to act > > contrary to us and to mock us and to hate us and kill us. > > Judy wrote: > > Those of us who are honest will admit that we > > were walking in most of Galatians 5:19,21 if not all. > > "WERE" is the proper tense. Why do you try and resurrect it to present > tense? > > Judy wrote: > > That the land of our heart is inhabited by some enemies > > is evident by what comes out of our mouths (at times). > > Nothing defiling comes out of my mouth anymore. Once it had, yes, but not > anymore. I'm sure my rebukes or corrections appear otherwise to some on > this list, as they like to point to such things as evidence of my > sinfulness, but God knows what is good and right and what is not. Men of > wickedness lack discernment of such things. > > Peace be with you. > David Miller. > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know > how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. 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