[TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us

[Judy Taylor]

From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> David Miller wrote: >> The concept that the Holy Spirit is working to convict >> believers of various sins, such as stealing, lust, >> covetousness, etc. is dangerous.   Judy wrote: Why do you see this as dangerous David?   Because people confuse the voice of the Spirit with their own inner convictions.  Furthermore, they misinterpret the work of the Holy Spirit, and therefore ascribe works to him which are not his.  This leads to error.   jt: I'm thinking that I understand what you are saying since I once moved in charismatic circles where ppl would say "The Lord said this or that" and most of the time it was either themselves or another spirit. However, if we stay within scriptural guidlines we are safe. I didn't see much conviction of sin in those circles.  Also the Spirit always points to Christ and never exalts religious spirits or people.   Judy wrote: Being conformed to the "image of Christ" does not happen overnight.  It is a process, just as salvation itself is a process of past, present, future.   It depends which image of Christ you are talking about.  Are you talking about him in his now glorified state?  You bet that is a process.  Are you talking about Christ as an infant lying in a manger?  No, that is not a process.  That is an event called being born again.   jt: I don't believe He has more than one "image" David; I don't refer to his outer form. I am speaking of His nature and character which has never changed.   Judy wrote: An object lesson is given us in scripture ... when after Israel celebrated the passover and God led them supernaturally to the promised land.  They were instructed to go in and take the land which He would give to them little by little. He did not clear the land all at one time because they would not be strong enough to hold it. (Exodus 23:29,30)   Good object lesson, but look at it closely.  They were no longer slaves in Egypt at this point.  Once they crossed that Red Sea and the waters killed the Egyptians that were pursuing them, they were saved.  They had deliverance from bondage to Egypt, which represents our deliverance from the bondage of sin to this world system.  What they lacked was possessing the promised land, the kingdom of God.  This is where faith comes in, and this is where the process of growth is important.   jt: True David, God had delivered them out of Egypt but it took him a lot longer to get Egypt out of them - a further 40yrs and one whole generation perishing in the wilderness to accomplish this.   We are immediately delivered, but love still is perfected.  I may not sin, but that does not mean that I cannot love better.  Yesterday I may have helped someone who came looking to me for help, but today I might seek out those who need help.  Yesterday, I might have known how to lead someone to a hospital to get help, but today I might pray for him to be healed instantly and thereby better help him in his situation.  Jesus at one time did no miracles, but his obedience and love were perfected at that time when he did minister in miracles and healed the sick, and ultimately gave his life a ransom for all, the ultimate _expression_ of love which he did when he was more than 33 years old, not when he was 5 years old.   jt: Jesus was born under the law and under the old covenant a priest was not anointed for ministry before the age of 33. We don't see the same kinds of spiritual gifts in operation but there are other reasons for this.   Judy wrote: Likewise when we surrender our lives to Christ we also have enemies on the land (our heart) ...   You have the wrong analogy here, Judy.  The enemies of our own heart were when we were in Egypt, or the unbelief when God tells us to possess his kingdom and we say such is impossible.  The enemies in the land, the Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites... these enemies represent not defects of our own heart, but enemies in the air, principalities and powers and rulers of darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places which inspire people to act contrary to us and to mock us and to hate us and kill us.   jt: I see the analogy in today's Church David, especially if you examine the meaning of the root words for the Canaanite nations the spirits oppressing them are alive and well and in the hearts of church members today.   Judy wrote: Those of us who are honest will admit that we were walking in most of Galatians 5:19,21 if not all.   "WERE" is the proper tense.  Why do you try and resurrect it to present tense?   jt: I am not resurrecting anything David; ATST we don't need to be walking in denial.   Judy wrote: That the land of our heart is inhabited by some enemies is evidenced by what comes out of our mouths (at times).   Nothing defiling comes out of my mouth anymore.  Once it had, yes, but not anymore.  I'm sure my rebukes or corrections appear otherwise to some on this list, as they like to point to such things as evidence of my sinfulness, but God knows what is good and right and what is not.  Men of wickedness lack discernment of such things.   jt: I am not looking for sinfulness in you or anyone else, nor do I believe you would intentionally act in such a way. I am speaking more of hidden faults and only the Lord knows the number of these.  It's what should keep us humble.   judyt