Re: [TruthTalk] Moses sees god's face and lives in the PoGP!

[Dave Hansen]

DAVEH:  Since you brought up Moses below, let's look what happened to him in Ex 33... [11] And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. ...............At the end of the same chapter, the Lord tells Moses........ [20] And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. [21] And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: [22] And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: [23] And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen. ...........thou shalt see my back parts, and as evidence that actually happened, ch 34 explains........ [34] But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded. [35] And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him. ...............That something miraculous had happened that caused Moses' face to shine.  Numbers 12 clarifies what Moses saw........ [5] And the LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth. [6] And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. [7] My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. [8] With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses? .........Notice that he distinguishes between Moses and those of lesser faith.  And he clearly points out that Moses beheld the similitude of the LORD.     So Perry, would you not admit that this clearly shows that Moses saw God?  That Moses did not see God's face is of little consequence.  Moses probably never saw the bottom of God's feet either.  But....according to the Bible he certainly saw God.     After reading more of the account of how Moses saw God, do you still think that the account you cited in Moses 1:2......... And he saw God face to face, and he talked with him, and  the  glory of God was upon Moses; therefore Moses could endure his presence. ..........contradicts the Bible?  I certainly don't see any contradiction, especially since the Bible quotes the Lord as speaking face to face to Moses.  Are you clear on that, Perry........or do you continue to believe it is impossible to see God? Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave,   You have made the statement "Clearly the Bible does show that man can see God." If it so clear, please show me so I can be clear on this, too. Perry From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> *Why is it that mormons like you, Dave, aren't alarmed by these contradictions?* DAVEH:   Because LDS folks like me don't view them as contradictions, Perry.   Instead, we view *your* understanding to be in error.  Clearly the Bible does show that man can see God.  If you fail to understand that concept, then you will never understand why LDS folks don't see it as a contradiction. Charles Perry Locke wrote: Dave, Moses cannot see God and live in the Bible, but he can in the PoGP! Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. MOS 1:2 And he saw God face to face, and he talked with him, and  the  glory of God was upon Moses; therefore Moses could endure his presence. Dave, how can this be? The revelation to JS in the PoGP contradicts the Bible!!! Which is correct? I have my opinion, of course! And that is that if the moses of mormonism saw the mormon god's face and lived, we must have a different god, for no one can see the face of the God of the Bible and live! I have read only the first few verses of the book of Moses in the Pearl of Greast Price (one of the mormon standard works consisting of revelation to JS from god, right?), and already have found two glaring contradictions!!! Why should I read further? *Why is it that mormons like you, Dave, aren't alarmed by these contradictions?* Perry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.