Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:21:51 -0800

Through the Holy Spirit?
 
Do you see such Theology in the verse Hebrews 10:14 is that why you insert your theology?
 
It says by "ONE OFFERING" was that offering by the Holy Spirit?
 
KJV For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Seems you read alot into this verse - The Holy Spirit, The Ressurection, other things
 
Also this ONE OFFERING is INSUFFICIENT?
This would need to be a further discussion, but, yes, it was in part via his one offering that he is now sanctifying us; his ressurrection plays a significant role as well, among other things.

Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

No, Kevin, "being" does not affect the "MOOD" of the verb; it affects its VOICE.
 
OK I will buy that.
Jesus performs the action! Sanctifying
 
Yes, via the Holy Spirit

The present tense indicates that the action (to sanctify) is presently taking place
So Jesus is NOW sanctifying thru ONE OFFERING?
 
This would need to be a further discussion, but, yes, it was in part via his one offering that he is now sanctifying us; his ressurrection plays a significant role as well, among other things.

Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin wrote: As anyone can see adding BEING changes NOT JUST the MOOD but the whole MEANING! But that is the desired effect, just you are not supposed to know.
 
 
No, Kevin, "being" does not affect the "MOOD" of the verb; it affects its VOICE.
 
  • Active voice: The subject of the statement (or clause) performs the action of the verb; e.g., Kevin fed the children.
  • Middle voice: The subject of the statement performs the action of the verb upon him- or her- or itself; e.g., Kevin fed himself.
  • Passive voice: Someone or something other than the subject of the statement performs the action of the verb; e.g. Kevin is being fed by the children.
Hagiazomenous is a participle in the present tense and the passive voice; it functions as the accusative (or direct object) of the statement; it is masculine and it is plural (The accusative in this verse are those whom Christ "has perfected forever"). The present tense indicates that the action (to sanctify) is presently taking place; the passive voice indicates that the action is being performed by someone other than the accusative; i.e., someone other than those who have been perfected; hence the translation: "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."
 
Bill
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

Well my point was the word is at it's root Sanctify
The mood attaches a ING or ED making it sanctified or sanctifying.
 
The WORD for BEING is NOT in the text, just in someones theology!
It has been inserted in a very few of the more corrupt and newest Translations
 
As anyone can see adding BEING changes NOT JUST the MOOD but the whole MEANING! But that is the desired effect, just you are not supposed to know.
I bet the RCC translations read this way because that would be desirable for their theology

Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hagiazomenous   verb participle present passive accusative masculine plural [Friberg]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

What is the greek word in the text, that is to BE translated into "BEING" in hebrews 10:14?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They are not "being perfected."  They are being sanctified.   I believe that "sactification" is the work of God within the believer  --  its finale is expressed [in part]  in a visible difference  (holiness) between "us" and "them."   In this example, we are passively involved to the glory of God.   Perfection, in this scripture, is a done deal   --  Him dying ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME  for us. 
 
JD
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo..com>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:17:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

KJV For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
 
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation   For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
Youngs Literal translation for by one offering he hath perfected to the end those sanctified
ASV For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
 
NKJV For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
NIV because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
 
If Christ's offering gives eternal perfection, as the first half of the verse claims, why does the rest of the verse say that we are BEING 'perfected'?
 


Dean Moore <cd_moore@earthlink.net> wrote:
cd: see the Bottom of page.
----- Original Message -----
To: [email protected]
Sent: 11/21/2005 10:08:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/revisor

 
 
On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 06:27:06 -0700 "Taylor" <wmtaylor@plains.net> writes:
Since the theme has been that of perfection, I thought I would keep it going with a look at Hebrews 10.14. The KJV says, "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." A cursory reading of this verse may leave one with the impression that the "perfected" are those whose sanctification is complete: they are, after all, "sanctified," aren't they? Well, not if one's concern is with holding true to the "pure" word of God as set forth in the "Received Text." In the Greek this participle is a present tense in the passive voice. If one were desiring to reflect that voice in his translation and thereby hold true to the grammar and intent of the "majority text," this participle would best be translated as "those who are being sanctified," thereby reflecting a sanctification which is passive (i.e.., the action is being pe rformed by someone other than the subject) and not yet complete. Hence according to this, Christ has perfected forever (a completed action), not those who are presently sanctified (also a completed action), but those who are in the process of being sanctified: a fairly significant difference, it seems to me.  Bill
 
So this is an example of how the KJV is in error Bill?
IMO the error is with your understanding rather than with the text of the KJV translation.  You have read something into the text that is not there and have made a straw man to knock down.  The word sanctification does not necessarily mean an action being performed;  the same word is used in 1 Cor 7:14 for an unbelieving wife who is sanctified (set apart, consecrated) by the faith of her husband.  In this sense "sanctified" means something entirely different from what you describe. So IOW "By one offering Jesus has perfected for ever them that are set apart, consecrated (or sanctified)." 
 
I have a huge banner that says the same thing you banner say on 1 John 2:4-I will send  you a picture of it sis :-)
                                         judyt                                       
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
                              is a liar (1 John 2:4)

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