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If you want to get into the interpretive aspects of
this verse, maybe we can do that on a different occasion. For now, please just
disregard my responses below. I would prefer to stick to the translative
questions, if you don't mind.
Bill
Proof texts? Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
No, Kevin, "being" does not affect the
"MOOD" of the verb; it affects its VOICE.
OK I will buy that.
Jesus performs the action! Sanctifying
Yes, via the Holy
Spirit
The present tense indicates that the action (to sanctify) is
presently taking place
So Jesus is NOW sanctifying thru ONE OFFERING?
This would need to be a further
discussion, but, yes, it was in part via his one offering that he is
now sanctifying us; his ressurrection plays a significant role as well,
among other things.
Kevin wrote: As anyone can see adding BEING changes NOT JUST the
MOOD but the whole MEANING! But that is the desired effect, just you are
not supposed to know.
No, Kevin, "being" does not affect the
"MOOD" of the verb; it affects its VOICE.
- Active voice: The subject of the statement
(or clause) performs the action of the verb; e.g., Kevin fed the
children.
- Middle voice: The subject of the statement
performs the action of the verb upon him- or her- or itself; e.g.,
Kevin fed himself.
- Passive voice: Someone or something
other than the subject of the statement performs the action of
the verb; e.g. Kevin is being fed by the
children.
Hagiazomenous is a participle in the present tense and the passive voice;
it functions as the accusative (or direct object) of the
statement; it is masculine and it is plural (The accusative in this
verse are those whom Christ "has perfected forever"). The present tense
indicates that the action (to sanctify) is presently taking place; the
passive voice indicates that the action is being performed by
someone other than the accusative; i.e., someone other than those who
have been perfected; hence the translation: "For by one offering He
has perfected forever those who are being sanctified."
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005
8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
corrector/revisor
Well my point was the word is at it's root Sanctify
The mood attaches a ING or ED making it sanctified or
sanctifying.
The WORD for BEING is NOT in the text, just in someones
theology!
It has been inserted in a very few of the more corrupt and newest
Translations
As anyone can see adding BEING changes NOT JUST the MOOD but the
whole MEANING! But that is the desired effect, just you are not
supposed to know.
I bet the RCC translations read this way because that would be
desirable for their theology
Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hagiazomenous verb participle present passive accusative
masculine plural [Friberg]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 22,
2005 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
corrector/revisor
What is the greek word in the text, that is to
BE translated into "BEING" in hebrews 10:14? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They are not "being perfected." They are being
sanctified. I believe that "sactification" is the work of God within the
believer -- its finale is expressed [in part] in a visible
difference (holiness) between "us" and "them."
In this example, we are passively involved to the glory of
God. Perfection,
in this scripture, is a done deal -- Him dying
ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME for us.
JD -----Original
Message----- From: Kevin Deegan < openairmission@yahoo..com> To:
[email protected]Sent: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:17:39
-0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] corrector/ revisor
KJV For by one
offering he hath perfected for ever them that are
sanctified.
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963,
1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman
Foundation For by one offering He has
perfected for all time those who are sanctified. Youngs Literal translation for by one
offering he hath perfected to the end those sanctified
ASV For by one offering he hath perfected
for ever them that are sanctified.
NKJV For by one offering He has perfected
forever those who are being sanctified.
NIV because by one
sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made
holy.
If Christ's offering gives eternal
perfection, as the first half of the verse claims, why does the
rest of the verse say that we are BEING
'perfected'?
Dean Moore
<cd_moore@earthlink.net> wrote:
cd: see the Bottom of
page.
----- Original Message -----
To: [email protected]
Sent: 11/21/2005
10:08:48 AM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk] corrector/revisor
Since the theme has been
that of perfection, I thought I would keep it going with a
look at Hebrews 10.14. The KJV says, "For by one offering
he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." A
cursory reading of this verse may leave one with the
impression that the "perfected" are those whose
sanctification is complete: they are,
after all, "sanctified," aren't they? Well, not if
one's concern is with holding true to the "pure" word of God
as set forth in the "Received Text." In the Greek this
participle is a present tense in the passive voice.
If one were desiring to reflect that voice in his
translation and thereby hold true to the grammar and intent
of the "majority text," this participle
would best be translated as "those who are being
sanctified," thereby reflecting a sanctification which is passive
(i.e.., the action is being pe rformed by someone other than the subject) and
not yet complete. Hence
according to this, Christ has perfected forever (a completed
action), not those who are presently sanctified (also a
completed action), but those who are in the process of
being sanctified: a fairly significant
difference, it seems to me. Bill
So this is an
example of how the KJV
is in error Bill?
IMO the error is with your
understanding rather than with the text of the KJV translation. You
have read something into the text that is not there and have
made a straw man to knock down. The word
sanctification does not necessarily mean an action being
performed; the same word is used in 1 Cor 7:14 for an unbelieving
wife who is sanctified (set apart, consecrated) by the faith
of her husband. In this sense "sanctified" means
something entirely different from what you describe.
So IOW "By one
offering Jesus has perfected for ever them that are set
apart, consecrated (or sanctified)."
I have a huge banner that says the same thing
you banner say on 1 John 2:4-I will send you a picture
of it sis :-)
judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John
2:4)
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