Here is the absolute truth. Calvin was a sinner, just like you , just
like me. God has all the facts and has treated him justly. It is not
something we need to worry about. There are people who need loving and
souls that need saving. You cannot do either with your nose in a book.
Terry
==================================================================
Dave Hansen wrote:
DAVEH: Thanx for your advice on this, DavidM...especially considering
your time constraints.
Not that I want to open another can of worms, but in light of my
discussion (if it could be called
that) with Perry and whether or not there is any truth to be found on
TT, these exchanges you are
having with Judy and Dean illustrate the problem I see with TT. I
don't know which side is giving
the truth about Calvin, but I'd sure be surprised if you are able to
convert Judy and/or Dean to your
way of seeing it, and likewise....I doubt you will be jumping over to
your side of the fence.
When I asked you the question, So where's the truth?......the
answer ain't so simple.....
All you have to do, Dave, is read more history from both sides.
........without engaging in a lot of independent study and then drawing
conclusions based on
that. But perhaps I'm being a bit too critical. I suppose you could
have given me a dogmatic
answer that would have been no different than Judy and Dean's answers.
Either way....it leads me to believe truth is pretty
illusive on TT. Forgive me for harping on
that theme, but it has become pretty apparent recently that truth really
isn't the focus of TT. If
anything, it seems to be more a place to argue truth without
real truth being all that relevant. I
don't know if that makes any sense though.....
FWIW.....I do have a genuine interest in Calvin, as I've heard a
lot of stuff related to him on
the radio program (Key Life Ministries with Steve Brown) who is
apparently a Calvinist (if that is
possible with SB being a Presbyterian?) Anyway....hearing about him
has given me a mild interest
in knowing about his theology. Now that I'm hearing two sides of the
coin in TT, it just seems a
little odd. I'm just not sure I want to spend a whole lot of time
trying to sort out the truth about
him from the clutter.
David Miller wrote:
DAVEH:
So where's the truth? Judy posted a pretty compelling
argument that was diametrically opposed to DavidM's
comments. Which is correct?
All you have to do, Dave, is read more history from both sides. What you
find is that many people spin the facts however they want to spin it. The
article Judy shared is way off the chart in spin against Calvin. It ignores
important facts, and spins known facts ascribing motive to Calvin that is
unwarranted. For example, yes, Servetus read Calvin's Institutes and gave
Calvin a copy of it all marked up with his criticisms. The article tries to
spin this fact into Calvin getting personally upset with such and that he
was filled with a vile anger and hatred toward Servetus for his criticism.
The truth is that Calvin worked and worked to try and help Servetus correct
his errors, but Servetus was uncooperative. Servetus challenges Calvin to a
debate but then does not show up for his own debate? Come on. Servetus
does not engage Calvin, but rather publishes his criticisms without Calvin's
response? There is a lot more to the story to consider than personal
vindictiveness. Get all the facts for yourself and make up your own mind.
Still, we will all approach the subject with certain assumptions.
If I had time, I would go through and point out all the falsehoods and the
false assumptions in that article that Judy shared. They are readily
apparent to me based upon my past reading on the subject, but I don't have a
lot of time right now. Read Schaff for yourself, and Foxe's Book of
Martyrs. I think they will help provide a more balanced perspective on the
issue. Also go to the sources that Schaff references.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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