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cd: You are using the work "seal"
wrong Bill. ...
In all respect, Dean, yours
is an exercise in futility with me. I grew up believing that Christians
could lose their
salvation; in fact, I grew up believing that I had lost mine on many occasions,
and for many years I believed my dad had gone to hell because of "sins" he was
still committing when he passed (for instance, he still liked to have a beer
every now and then, and he still enjoyed playing cards to pass the time).
Well, I have since discovered the amazing grace of God in Jesus Christ, and I
love him -- and, quite frankly, it'll be a cold day in HELL before I'll go back
to anybody's performance-based, DAISY approach to the Gospel. It just
ain't gonna happen. And so, if you want to spell it out for the
"benefit" of others, that is your prerogative; but please don't do it on my
account, because I won't be listening.
La-la-La-la-La-La-La
Respectfully,
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 12:28
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/5/2006 12:51:03 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Bill do you see any fault in the
below?
Dean, here is a
quotation from that passage: "If they (the frames and
feelings) are not in us, it is a sure sign that though the wilderness
became a pool, the pool is become a wilderness again."
I can agree that a
believer can apostate to the point that God will take him home, so to speak,
so as to prevent him from irreparable destruction. But I am not convinced
that a true believer can lose his or her salvation, once having received the
guarantee and seal of the Holy Spirit; for that is no longer
the Christian going back on his word; it is God.
----------------------------------------------
cd: You are using the work
"seal" wrong Bill. God uses the seal of the Holy Ghost to mark his
property.The quarantee is that if we walk in Holiness we will be
accepted by God.Why test something that has already been guaranteed for
service and heaven?We Christians are tested.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not
the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of
redemption.
Whereby ye are sealed - The Holy Spirit in the soul of a
believer is Gods seal, set on his heart to testify that he is Gods
property, and that he should be wholly employed in Gods service. It is
very likely that the apostle had in view the words of the prophet,
Isa_63:10 : But
they rebelled, and Vexed his Holy Spirit; therefore he was turned to be
their enemy, and fought against them. The psalmist refers to the same fact
in nearly the same words, Psa_78:40 : How oft did they Provoke him in
the wilderness, and Grieve him in the desert! Let every man, therefore, take
heed that he grieve not the Spirit of God, lest God turn to be his enemy,
and fight against him.
Webster Dictionary: Seal
6. To mark with a stamp, as an evidence of standard exactness, legal
size, or merchantable quality. By our laws, weights and measures are to be
sealed by an officer appointe and sworn for that purpose; and lether
is to be sealed by a like officer, as evidence that it has been
inspected and found to be of good quality.
7. To keep secret.
Shut up the words, and seal the
book. Dan 11. Isa 8.
8. To mark as ones property, and secure from danger.
9. To close; to fulfill; to complete; with up.
10. To imprint on the ; as, to seal instruction.
11. To inclose; to hide; to conceal.
12. To confine; to restrain.
cd: Consider the parable of the sower:He heard the word of Christ, and
recieved Christ-endured for a while-falls away when it got tough.
Mat 13:20 But he that
received the seed into stony
places, the
same is he that heareth the
word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth
for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the
word, by and by he is offended.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006
6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/3/2006 10:55:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
It may be helpful to distinguish
between duality and dualism.
cd; Yeah what he
said:-)
I'll defer to John's
comments for now, Dean, as his are insightful and I do not wish to
devote the time to the topic which would be needed to draw out the
distinctions. Suffice it to say that (1) I see two distinct natures at
work in the person of Christ prior to his death and resurrection: a
human nature, replete with all the limitations commensurate with fallen
humanity; and a Divine nature, which is fully God. (2) I also see two
distinct natures at work in his person after the resurrection: the
same Divine nature as before, along with a new, glorified human nature.
(3) As it pertains to us as Christians, I see two distinct natures at
work in our members: an old fallen nature which refuses to stay down (if
you will allow some latitude with this language); and a new nature which
is that of the resurrected Christ, as ministered to us by the Holy
Spirit. Moreover, (4) I believe that the old nature will be erased
in our resurrection, never again to rear its ugly h ead; that will
leave us with but one nature, the same nature which we
received from Christ in the new birth.
Dean, I hope this
makes sense and helps you to understand how I can find agreement
with David on the topic of dualism, without desiring to delve into a
detailed discussion on its distinctions in a separate
thread.
-------------------------------
cd: Bill I can agree with yours-and
Johns- presentation and of dualism in the brethren for a time. But
I also feel one must allow for the guidance of the Holy Spirit to
stronger levels of Holiness that will press the old man into total
subjection for this is pleasing to God. Love would be the domination
word for this as it is the domination emotion for us Christians. With
love I will not get angry for being struck -with love I will not lust
for the scantly dressed women my heart will pull back from that sin-love
is the only way to fulfill the law of loving my neighbor as myself.Love
will root out all sin in the flesh.As we grow in sanctification we are
growing in love to where even dualism is no longer a factor for me as my
union is with the father, Son ,and the Holy Ghost.Bill do you see any
fault in the below?
J. Wesley wrote:
2Pe 3:18 - But grow in grace - That is, in
every Christian temper. There may be, for a time, grace without growth;
as there may be natural life without growth. But such sickly life, of
soul or body, will end in death, and every day draw nigher to it. Health
is the means of both natural and spiritual growth. If the remaining evil
of our fallen nature be not daily mortified, it will, like an evil
humour in the body, destroy the whole man. But "if ye through the Spirit
do mortify the deeds of the body," (only so far as we do this,) "ye
shall live" the life of faith, holiness, happiness. The end and design
of grace being purchased and bestowed on us, is to destroy the image of
the earthy, and restore us to that of the heavenly. And so far as it
does this, it truly profits us; and also makes way for more of the heavenly gift, that we may at
last be filled with all the fulness of God. The strength and well -
being of a Christian depend on what his soul feeds on, as the heal th of
the body depends on whatever we make our daily food. If we feed on what
is according to our nature, we grow; if not, we pine away and die. The
soul is of the nature of God, and nothing but what is according to his
holiness can agree with it. Sin,
of every kind, starves the soul, and makes it consume away. Let us not
try to invert the order of God in his new creation: we shall only
deceive ourselves. It is easy to forsake the will of God, and follow our
own; but this will bring leanness into the soul. It is easy to satisfy
ourselves without being possessed of the holiness and happiness of the
gospel. It is easy to call these frames and feelings, and then to oppose
faith to one and Christ to the other. Frames (allowing the _expression_)
are no other than heavenly
tempers, "the mind that was in Christ." Feelings are the divine
consolations of the Holy Ghost shed abroad in the heart of him that
truly believes. And wherever faith is, and wherever Christ is, there are
these blessed frames and feelings. If they are not in us, it is a sure
sign that though the wilderness became a pool, the pool is become a
wilderness again. And in the knowledge of Christ - That is, in faith,
the root of all. To him be the glory to the day of eternity - An
_expression_ naturally flowing from that sense which the apostle had felt
in his soul throughout this whole chapter. Eternity is a day without
night, without interruption, without
end.
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