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Can't we all though, Dean? EVERYONE (even Lance
when pressed) can back up that which she/he says that the Bible says. Please
tell me that you know that, Dean?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: February 07, 2006 07:31
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/7/2006 6:48:55 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Dean says "I AM RIGHT"!! The 'mantle' has been
passed from DM to CD.
cd: Lance I can back up what I state with the
bible that makes me righteous therefore I can say I am right.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: February 06, 2006 16:58
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/6/2006 7:47:26 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
I took those thing you mentioned in
the above and compared them to commandments and found none of them were
sin-unless taken into excess.
That's the point, Dean. As
soon as you give people the power to take away salvation, they start
making up ways of doing it.
--------------------------
cd: Who would give people power to take
one salvation away? Salvation is a personal issue between God and man-as
such it is untouchable for other people.
----------------------------
Thank you for your concern.
I am open to just about anything, but over the years certain excursions
have proven to be less fruitful than others. I used to think this debate
-- Calvinism v Arminianism, with its different forms -- was the most
important in-house debate for Christians. I pursued it with gusto --
from both sides :>) I can see now how little fruit it beared. I don't
want to squander more friendships on secondary
issues.
I think Jesus Christ and
getting to know him is where we need to spend our
time.
----------------------------------
cd: And if I am right?And I am. What
then? Bill for some reason I think you know what I am saying to be the
truth-you are to smart not to know this.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006
4:25 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/5/2006 5:51:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
cd: You are using the work
"seal" wrong Bill. ...
In all respect,
Dean, yours is an exercise in futility with me. I grew up
believing that Christians could lose their salvation; in fact, I grew up
believing that I had lost mine on many occasions, and for many years
I believed my dad had gone to hell because of "sins" he was still
committing when he passed (for instance, he still liked to have a
beer every now and then, and he still enjoyed playing cards to
pass the time). Well, I have since discovered the amazing grace of
God in Jesus Christ, and I love him -- and, quite frankly, it'll be
a cold day in HELL before I'll go back to anybody's
performance-based, DAISY approach to the Gospel. It just ain't gonna
happen. And so, if you want to spell it out for the
"benefit" of others, that is your prerogative; but please don't do
it on my account, because I won't be listening.
La-la-La-la-La-La-
cd: Bill I respect your right
to not listen and will withdraw in this private forum-But I will
leave you with one thing. I also know what it is like to live
with the constant fear of causing harm to my relationship with God-I
never want to go back to that-that is why many people are in mental
hospitals.But at some point in my misery God gave me a revelation
and it stemmed from the passage to "work out your own salvation with
fear and trembling". I took those thing you mentioned in the above
and compared them to commandments and found none of them were
sin-unless taken into excess.That is my point for promoting a clear
understanding of the commandments as to break one can be forgiven if
the remorse is there and the repentance-then one goes on with life
trusting in Christ to mediate that wrong.The wonderful part is that
he can mediate anything a Christian would do:-) But to be evil and
to continue on in sinning against God and others is a different
matter entirly.Believing in keeping God's co mmandments with fear
has not bounded me to suffering but has instead freed me to a better
life and helped me to relax-but also to watch myself. This is not
only brought joy to my life but also brought a closer relationship
with God.
I have found to all
those things I had been taught wasn't sin as I took the time to
study what the commandments were to and understand that some
things take time to grow into.I am sorry to hear that you believe
you father went to hell over such things. To help clear up any
misunderstand I will leave you with 2 verses to consider that should
cause freedom in your life.
cd:Notice in the below that
these commandment breakers not only taught wrong but lived wrong and
still made it to heaven.Why -I think because they lived in ignorance
of what the specific commandment was-or that they hadn't been given
a clear indication of what the commandment included.For me to
believe one went to hell is to judge without complete understanding
for there is more there then what it would seem to be-I believe you
did this with your father.
Mat 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them,
the same
shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
cd:Bill this below is the joy and freedom
I am speaking about-Godly fear without being
grieved.
1Jo 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
cd: I would ask you to do this Bill. Do
you have a words search for the bible? If so- type in commandments
and look how many times they are mentioned in the new
testiment.Again none of us know the entire bible so we learn from
each other-there are many thing you have written about that I want
to question you about to learn from you-but as we are in this issue-
I hesitate to bring up a new topic. We learn from each other Bill
and there is no shame of not knowing-the shame is to reject the
truth.
Respectfully,
Thank you for the respect and for this
as I understand you better-may God bless you Bill.You were in my
prayers last night and will be there tonight.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/5/2006 12:51:03 PM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk]
Bill do you see any fault
in the below?
Dean,
here is a quotation from that passage: "If they (the
frames and feelings) are not in us, it is a sure sign that
though the wilderness became a pool, the pool is become a
wilderness again."
I can agree
that a believer can apostate to the point that God will take him
home, so to speak, so as to prevent him from irreparable
destruction. But I am not convinced that a true believer can
lose his or her salvation, once having received the
guarantee and seal of the Holy Spirit; for that is
no longer the Christian going back on his word; it is
God.
----------------------------------------------
cd: You are using the work
"seal" wrong Bill. God uses the seal of the Holy Ghost to
mark his property.The quarantee is that if we walk in
Holiness we will be accepted by God.Why test something that has
already been guaranteed for service and heaven?We Christians are
tested.
Eph 4:30 And
grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of
redemption.
Whereby ye are sealed - The Holy Spirit in
the soul of a believer is Gods seal, set on his heart to
testify that he is Gods property, and that he should be
wholly employed in Gods service. It is very likely that the
apostle had in view the words of the prophet, Isa_63:10 : But
they rebelled, and Vexed his Holy Spirit; therefore he was
turned to be their enemy, and fought against them. The psalmist
refers to the same fact in nearly the same words,
Psa_78:40 : How oft did they Provoke him in the wilderness, and
Grieve him in the desert! Let every man, therefore, take heed
that he grieve not the Spirit of God, lest God turn to be his
enemy, and fight against him.
Webster Dictionary: Seal
6. To mark with a stamp, as an evidence of standard
exactness, legal size, or merchantable quality. By our laws,
weights and measures are to be sealed by an officer
appointe and sworn for that purpose; and lether is to be
sealed by a like officer, as evidence that it has been
inspected and found to be of good quality.
7. To keep secret.
Shut up the words, and seal the book. Dan 11. Isa 8.
8. To mark as ones property, and secure from
danger.
9. To close; to fulfill; to complete; with up.
10. To imprint on the ; as, to seal instruction.
11. To inclose; to hide; to conceal.
12. To confine; to restrain.
cd: Consider the parable of the sower:He heard the word of
Christ, and recieved Christ-endured for a while-falls away when
it got tough.
Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed
into
stony places, the same is
he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while: for when tribulation
or
persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he
is
offended.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February
04, 2006 6:11 AM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk]
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/3/2006 10:55:41
PM
Subject: Re:
[TruthTalk]
It may be helpful to
distinguish between duality and
dualism.
cd; Yeah what he
said:-)
I'll
defer to John's comments for now, Dean, as his are
insightful and I do not wish to devote the time to the topic
which would be needed to draw out the distinctions.
Suffice it to say that (1) I see two distinct natures at
work in the person of Christ prior to his death and
resurrection: a human nature, replete with all the
limitations commensurate with fallen humanity; and a Divine
nature, which is fully God. (2) I also see two distinct
natures at work in his person after the
resurrection: the same Divine nature as before, along
with a new, glorified human nature. (3) As it pertains to us
as Christians, I see two distinct natures at work in our
members: an old fallen nature which refuses to stay down (if
you will allow some latitude with this language); and a new
nature which is that of the resurrected Christ, as
ministered to us by the Holy Spirit. Moreover, (4) I believe
that the old nature will be erased in our resurrection,
never again to rear its ugly h ead; that will leave
us with but one nature, the same nature which we
received from Christ in the new birth.
Dean, I
hope this makes sense and helps you to understand how
I can find agreement with David on the topic of
dualism, without desiring to delve into a detailed
discussion on its distinctions in a separate
thread.
-------------------------------
cd: Bill I can agree with
yours-and Johns- presentation and of dualism in the
brethren for a time. But I also feel one must allow for the
guidance of the Holy Spirit to stronger levels of Holiness
that will press the old man into total subjection for this
is pleasing to God. Love would be the domination word for
this as it is the domination emotion for us Christians. With
love I will not get angry for being struck -with love I will
not lust for the scantly dressed women my heart will pull
back from that sin-love is the only way to fulfill the law
of loving my neighbor as myself.Love will root out all sin
in the flesh.As we grow in sanctification we are growing in
love to where even dualism is no longer a factor for me as
my union is with the father, Son ,and the Holy Ghost.Bill do
you see any fault in the below?
J. Wesley
wrote:
2Pe 3:18 - But grow in grace - That
is, in every Christian temper. There may be, for a time,
grace without growth; as there may be natural life without
growth. But such sickly life, of soul or body, will end in
death, and every day draw nigher to it. Health is the means
of both natural and spiritual growth. If the remaining evil
of our fallen nature be not daily mortified, it will, like
an evil humour in the body, destroy the whole man. But "if
ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body,"
(only so far as we do this,) "ye shall live" the life of
faith, holiness, happiness. The end and design of grace
being purchased and bestowed on us, is to destroy the image
of the earthy, and restore us to that of the heavenly. And
so far as it does this, it truly profits us; and also makes
way for more of the
heavenly gift, that we may at last be filled with all the
fulness of God. The strength and well - being of a Christian
depend on what his soul feeds on, as the heal th of the body
depends on whatever we make our daily food. If we feed on
what is according to our nature, we grow; if not, we pine
away and die. The soul is of the nature of God, and nothing
but what is according to his holiness can agree with it.
Sin, of every kind,
starves the soul, and makes it consume away. Let us not try
to invert the order of God in his new creation: we shall
only deceive ourselves. It is easy to forsake the will of
God, and follow our own; but this will bring leanness into
the soul. It is easy to satisfy ourselves without being
possessed of the holiness and happiness of the gospel. It is
easy to call these frames and feelings, and then to oppose
faith to one and Christ to the other. Frames (allowing the
_expression_) are no
other than heavenly tempers, "the mind that was in Christ."
Feelings are the divine consolations of the Holy Ghost shed
abroad in the heart of him that truly believes. And wherever
faith is, and wherever Christ is, there are these blessed
frames and feelings. If they are not in us, it is a sure
sign that though the wilderness became a pool, the pool is
become a wilderness again. And in the knowledge of Christ -
That is, in faith, the root of all. To him be the glory to
the day of eternity - An _expression_ naturally flowing from
that sense which the apostle had felt in his soul throughout
this whole chapter. Eternity is a day without night, without
interruption, without
end.
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