John wrote: > Do you understand why the left on > this forum finds this thinking impossible > to defend?
No. JD wrote: > Allow me the use of "ex-cathedra" I was not talking about ex cathedra speech. I don't believe in that kind of exercise of authority. We are WITNESSES not KINGS or POPES. JD wrote: > How does the ungifted look to > claims of ex-cathedra? I think Nicodemus would be a good example of this. Consider how he examined the claims of Jesus. JD wrote: > 2. When onlookers ask for confirmation > of Spirit-filled claims or anointed offices of > authority AND ARE IGNORED OR DENIED, > what recourse remains for the onlooker? None. They do not believe so they will perish. Mark 8:11-13 (11) And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him. (12) And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. (13) And he left them, and entering into the ship again departed to the other side. David Miller ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The use of Scripture to convince the gainsayers As for the "illumined/inspired/revealed" understanding being wrong, this is impossible since God does not lie. Only if the person did not hear from God could such be true. So if the person says he heard from God, and he did not, then he is a liar and should not be trusted in anything. This does not mean that anything he says is false. It only means that such a person cannot be trusted on anything. dm David, Lance has introduced some very good questioning regarding the above statement. Do you understand why the left on this forum finds this thinking impossible to defend? Allow me the use of "ex-cathedra" for I see not difference in your claim and that of the Pope. 1. How does the onlooker decide when two who claim Spirit direction disagree? The question assumes that the "onlooker" is not gifted as are the two Spirit-filled individuals. How does the ungifted look to claims of ex-cathedra? If he cannot make such an assessment, and I think you are forced to make this argument, what is the point of "ex-cathedra" other than a personal sense of confidence in the "message" 2. When onlookers ask for confirmation of Spirit-filled claims or anointed offices of authority AND ARE IGNORED OR DENIED, what recourse remains for the onlooker? -------------- Original message -------------- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I certainly do not have the attitude of "please understand these passages > exactly as I do." My perspective is more one of, "I see this aspect, what > part do you see, how do they fit together, and what aspects can we dismiss > as falsehood." > > As for the "illumined/inspired/revealed" understanding being wrong, this > is > impossible since God does not lie. Only if the person did not hear from > God > could such be true. So if the person says he heard from God, and he did > not, then he is a liar and should not be trusted in anything. This does > not > mean that anything he says is false. It only means that such a person > cannot be trusted on anything. > > David Miller > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lance Muir" > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:35 AM > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The use of Scripture to convince the gainsayers > > > B A L A N C E - Emphasis on which s y l l A b l e? Please understand these > passages exactly as I do. Thereafter we'll be "harmonious' (Om mani padme > hum) > > Q:Does God have more than one (1) understanding of anything? > Q:IFF one's 'illumined/inspired/revealed' understanding of WHO JESUS IS is > wrong then, ought we to trust that person's teaching on anything? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Miller" > To: "TruthTalk" > Sent: February 16, 2006 07:19 > Subject: [TruthTalk] The use of Scripture to convince the gainsayers > > > > John, > > > > I have been pondering your treatise concerning the role of Scripture to > > transform liv es. No doubt that is one role. But what about the use of > > Scriptures to guard against error? Does it have that role in your mind? > > > > Following are two passages that I would like for you to explain their > > meaning: > > > > 2 Timothy 3:16-17 > > (16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for > > doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: > > (17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all > > good > > works. > > > > Titus 1:9-11 > > (9) Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may > > be > > able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. > > (10) For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially > > they of the circumcision: > > (11) Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching > > things > > which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. > > > >>From my perspective, it tells me that Scripture should be used to rebuke > >>and > > correct others. It seems to me that some on the list, perhaps you > > included, > > despise this use, believing that it drives people away from God. Please > > do > > not think that I am trying to proof text here. That is an often abused > > allegation when passages are brought up. I am truly desiring to > > understand > > the message you hear being conveyed to you when you read these passages. > > When I read them, they instruct me as a man of God to use the Scriptures > > to > > exhort and convince GAINSAYERS. > > > > There are other passages that could be considered as well, but here is > > one > > that seems to be consonant with the idea that disputes among us should > > be > > expected, not shunned as somethi ng indicative of a defect in us. > > > > 1 Corinthians 11:18-19 > > (18) For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that > > there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. > > (19) For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are > > approved > > may be made manifest among you. > > > > David Miller. > > > > ---------- > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > > know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > > http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > ---------- > ; "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > know > how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may > know how > you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a > friend > who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and > he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
