Lance, you still do not hear me properly. People like me are involved in
both hearing God and in the interpretative process. Such are not mutually
exclusive activities. Please make a distinction between when someone
speaks
from their studies and the interpretative process and when someone speaks
in
the name of the Lord. You are trying to apply what I said about hearing
from God to study and the interpretative process.
David Miller.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The use of Scripture to convince the gainsayers
You, DM, say 'I would never say...' Why, DM? You seem to be saying that
you
have not/are not/will not re: deception.Are you saying that no believer
whatsoever (have/are/will not) or are you restricting that the
impossibility
of such applies only to you personally?
As to the latter, may I suggest another possibility? Mishearing,
misinterpreting, misreading, misapplication, are all possible. You spoke
of
some who've read you and thought you pompous. You also said that not one
who
had met you ever thought so. Well DM, did you poll them in order to
determine their perception? Perhaps at least one person does. Thereafter
they might so characterize you (wrongly,rightly) Perhaps the following is,
at least to you, preposterous but, you may actually be pompous and think
it
not so.
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: February 16, 2006 09:03
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The use of Scripture to convince the gainsayers
Lance, I would never say "the Lord showed me" if he did not. We must be
careful not to use the Lord's name in vain. We should separate what we
are
thinking from what we have heard. I realize that many people do use the
Lord's name in vain this way, but such people are not to be trusted.
Could it be possible for someone to be deceived and not actually be lying
with intent? Yes, but such a person should not be trusted either.
Imagine,
if you will, someone going around saying, "Lance told me this..." and
"Lance
told me that...," and you never said any such thing to them. You would
think the person was mentally ill. You would not trust such a person,
even
if you think the person sincerely thinks you spoke to them.
David Miller.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The use of Scripture to convince the gainsayers
As to the second part of your post, DM:Wouldn't such an one only be a
liar
if she knew she hadn't heard from God (i/i/r)? If she thought she had
but,
had not then there is no lie but, deception on the part of the supposed
recipient. Therefore, if you, DM, say 'the Lord showed me........as to
...
passage'; you believe He did; He did not; then you are wrong & deceived.
Is
this even a possibility?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: February 16, 2006 08:42
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The use of Scripture to convince the gainsayers
I certainly do not have the attitude of "please understand these passages
exactly as I do." My perspective is more one of, "I see this aspect,
what
part do you see, how do they fit together, and what aspects can we
dismiss
as falsehood."
As for the "illumined/inspired/revealed" understanding being wrong, this
is
impossible since God does not lie. Only if the person did not hear from
God
could such be true. So if the person says he heard from God, and he did
not, then he is a liar and should not be trusted in anything. This does
not
mean that anything he says is false. It only means that such a person
cannot be trusted on anything.
David Miller
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The use of Scripture to convince the gainsayers
B A L A N C E - Emphasis on which s y l l A b l e? Please understand
these
passages exactly as I do. Thereafter we'll be "harmonious' (Om mani
padme
hum)
Q:Does God have more than one (1) understanding of anything?
Q:IFF one's 'illumined/inspired/revealed' understanding of WHO JESUS IS
is
wrong then, ought we to trust that person's teaching on anything?
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "TruthTalk" <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
Sent: February 16, 2006 07:19
Subject: [TruthTalk] The use of Scripture to convince the gainsayers
John,
I have been pondering your treatise concerning the role of Scripture to
transform lives. No doubt that is one role. But what about the use of
Scriptures to guard against error? Does it have that role in your
mind?
Following are two passages that I would like for you to explain their
meaning:
2 Timothy 3:16-17
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for
doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness:
(17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all
good
works.
Titus 1:9-11
(9) Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may
be
able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
(10) For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers,
specially
they of the circumcision:
(11) Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching
things
which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
From my perspective, it tells me that Scripture should be used to
rebuke
and
correct others. It seems to me that some on the list, perhaps you
included,
despise this use, believing that it drives people away from God.
Please
do
not think that I am trying to proof text here. That is an often abused
allegation when passages are brought up. I am truly desiring to
understand
the message you hear being conveyed to you when you read these
passages.
When I read them, they instruct me as a man of God to use the
Scriptures
to
exhort and convince GAINSAYERS.
There are other passages that could be considered as well, but here is
one
that seems to be consonant with the idea that disputes among us should
be
expected, not shunned as something indicative of a defect in us.
1 Corinthians 11:18-19
(18) For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that
there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
(19) For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are
approved
may be made manifest among you.
David Miller.
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
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