I am not sure how far apart we are on this. My comment was indeed meant to express despair at the sorry state of television news, and not support for Williams.
As regards the memory itself, this is not really a matter of opinion. The fallibility and vulnerability of human memory is among the most heavily researched subjects in scientific psychology. We know quite a bit about this now. It is not at all difficult to believe that someone could honestly and mistakenly reconstruct a memory about being shot down in a helicopter 12 years ago, when in fact they were in a trailing helicopter, landing safe and sound. After all, we know that people honestly and mistakenly believe they remember having been repeatedly anally raped by their father when they were ten years old. Of course, it is also possible that Williams was not honestly recalling a false memory, but that he was consciously lying. I am not taking a stand on that, as I don't have any information that would allow me to make a determination. It does seem odd that such a public figure would repeatedly tell a conscious lie about such a verifiable event on television, but then I have been told a lot of whoppers by a lot of liars in my day, and every time I am shocked by how some people are able to look you right in the eyes and say the most outlandish lies without blushing. Perhaps Williams is such a person - and if he is, then of course he should be fired. But his claim that he conflated the two events is consistent with what we know about human memory, and if taken at face value, I don't think warrants being fired, though it does all of the embarrassment and humiliation he is no doubt experiencing. On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Doug Fields <[email protected]> wrote: > With all due respect to your opinion, which I have no doubt is more > informed and worthy than mine, it seems to me that there’s a difference > between a mundane story that’s been retold and enhanced over the years into > an unrecognizable fiction, and claiming to be a passenger on a helicopter > that takes a hit from a rocket-propelled grenade and is essentially forced > to crash land in B.F.Iraq. I can excuse the mis-remembering of an event > that has nothing all that memorable about it in the first place; a > potentially life-threatening situation would be a different animal > entirely. Those who were actually there are unlikely to ever forget it, > and those who weren’t shouldn’t be able to innocently create that memory > out of whole cloth. > > > > We disagree about whether firing would be an appropriate response (and I > happen to be a big BriWi fan!). But we do agree that “Williams and NBC > are a more credible source of news than anything available on cable.” But > while you appear to be using that to enhance the defense of Williams, I > just find it incredibly sad. > > > > Doug Fields > > Tampa, FL > > > > > > *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On > Behalf Of *PGage > *Sent:* Thursday, February 05, 2015 12:47 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [TV orNotTV] BriWi retracts an old tale of war helicopter > > > > I guarantee you that there is at least one psychology professor at every > college and university in the college doing exactly what I am doing today, > which is grabbing video and images and text about this event to integrate > into my lectures on the fallibility and social construction of human > memory. This is essentially the same thing that happened to Hillary in > 2008, and her mis-remembering of dodging bullets on the tarmac. It is also > the same thing that every single one of us does at least once a week, > telling a story after dinner, or over drinks to buddies, elaborating and > distorting events to make them more interesting, more flattering, shorter, > longer, easier to remember or more consistent with the current context. > Yes, some of this is intentional and conscious exaggeration, bordering on > lying, but most of it happens at a non-conscious level. > > > > That is not to excuse Williams. A journalist more than most should be wary > of the limits of human memory, and the importance of accuracy, and double > check facts before reporting on air important events. And, to Joe's point, > we would like to see credible journalists (that is, journalists interested > in retaining their credibility) being more reluctant to report stories in > which they themselves at the subject - and when they do, they must be > doubly concerned with accuracy, and with checking the all too human > tendency to inflate their own role in any story. > > > > I don't think that firing is a proportional response; I guess if NBC News > wanted to suspend him for a week that would signify that they were taking > it seriously. The problem is that the penalty for this kind of think should > be that the population of news consumers downgrades Williams as a source of > accurate and credible news; but in the last decade or two credibility has > ceased to be a defining characteristic of any news source. Even with this > flaw, Williams and NBC are a more credible source of news that anything > available on cable. > > > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:07 AM, Joe Hass <[email protected]> wrote: > > Two paths seems to be emerging. > > 1. Some great mocking at Williams: > http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/02/04/brian-williams-faces-fierce-mockery-after-recanting-iraq-war-story/ > and > http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-brian-williams-social-media-20150204-htmlstory.html > > 2. A sense that Williams should be disciplined, if not outright fired, for > this (primarily from the journalism watchers): > http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/rieder/2015/02/05/brian-williams-unmitigated-disaster/22915325/ > and > http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/04/brian-williams-taints-his-brand.html > > > > I know I raised in this forum a question about Williams and how he > sometimes seems to skate the line between a member of a news organization > and an entertainer, only to be convinced by the panel I was being > oversensitive about it. Fundamentally, this isn't a huge deal. But that > voice that was silenced way back when is kinda screaming back at me that > this is the kind of crap it was talking about. > > > > On Thu Feb 05 2015 at 9:00:18 AM Bob Jersey <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > He apologized Wednesday (4) <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33RSg9CBtUY> > ('toob) for having said on NBC's telecast of an NHL game as part of a > ceremony honouring a servicemember* -* and in 2013 to Dave - that a > chopper he was in while covering Iraq fighting in 2003 got hit by enemy > fire... the US military-newser Stars and Stripes busted him > <http://www.stripes.com/news/us/nbc-s-brian-williams-recants-iraq-story-after-soldiers-protest-1.327792> > (link) after gripes from three actual occupants of the attacked craft that > he was in a different chopper... > > B > > -- > -- > TV or Not TV .... 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