Stacey Dash says she’s ‘not here to judge’ neo-Nazis in first TV interview since declaring congressional bid
Link <http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/stacey-dash-not-judge-neo-nazis-article-1.3864252> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 3:22 AM, PGage <[email protected]> wrote: > Few arguments are simultaneously more passionate and arcane as those about > the US Census Race and Ethnicity questions. I have been involved in a lot > of these over the years, and will inhibit the impulse to get deep in those > weeds here. I will point out two things: > > 1. Nothing that you refer to here supports the idea that US Hispanics who > choose not to identify as “white” are somehow in error. This has been My > main concern with your original claim. The US Government does not try and > tell people what their racial and ethnic identification is or should be. US > citizens (almost) always self identify (the exception to this is in the > case of some native ethnicities). If George Lopez does not want to identify > as white, he does not have to, and he is not in error if he chooses not to. > > 2. The SOR problem is a function of the option introduced in the 2000 > Census to choose more than one racial designation, or none. The solution > the OMB is moving towards is actually in the direction that I favor (as I > noted in my previous post) of combining race and ethnicity. In that case, > people will be able to identify as “Hispanic” (specifying, if they like, > which specific Hispanic group they come from) as an alternative to > identifying as any race. Of course, people will also have the option of > marking Hispanic and one or more other race boxes. > > The OMB pilot data suggests that this will reduce the number of people who > elect to mark no box (which is what has been bugging OMB). > > Your statement that according to the OMB vision Hispanics who aren’t > Black, Asian or indigenous are supposed to describe themselves as white is > only kind of accurate, in the same way that you could also say Hispanics > who aren’t white, Asian or indigenous are supposed to identify as Black. > What OMB wants is for most people, using the old system, to select some > racial identification. But even under the current system, Hispanics are > free to select more than one racial category (just as anyone else is). But > what is not true is that most Hispanics are *really* white, and are wrong > unless they so identify. As I say, the 2015 National Content Test (you can > download it here: https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/ > 2020/program-management/final-analysis-reports/2015nct-race- > ethnicity-analysis.pdf - see in particular page 7 and page 26 ) suggests > that in the future, some Hispanics may elect to identify simply as > Hispanic, and not check any additional racial designation. This basically > collapses the idea of ethnicity and race, which as I say is the direction I > think we should be going in. > > > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 10:21 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> wrote: > >> The race and ethnicity categories are set up by the Office of Management >> and Budget. As the OMB envisions it, Hispanics who aren't black, Asian or >> indigenous are supposed to describe themselves as white. >> "In fact, in 2000 and in 2010, the Some Other Race (SOR) population, >> which was intended to be a small residual category, was the third largest >> race group. This was primarily due to reporting by Hispanics, who make up >> the overwhelming majority of those classified as SOR, not identifying with >> any of the OMB race categories." >> https://www.census.gov/about/our-research/race-ethnicity.html >> >> So they talk about doing a better job communicating to them. >> >> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:53 PM, PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Again, Hispanic is an ethnicity. It does not refer to language, >>> nationality, (though both of those have some relationship) SES or race. >>> Yes, it is true that for some people ethnic designation would not have >>> meaning, but that does not mean the designation is meaningless for most >>> people. For most of the people who identify as Hispanic in CA 44, the >>> designation is very meaningful. >>> >>> I don’t know how George Lopez identifies, but most Mexican Americans >>> identify as Hispanic, non-white.* That means their ethnicity is Hispanic >>> and their race is not white. I don’t know of any valid criteria that would >>> allow anyone to say that is an incorrect identification. >>> >>> All of this is relevant here because, in CA at least, Hispanics and >>> Blacks have a significant tendency to vote Democratic. Staci Dash will be >>> running as a Republican in a SoCal district that is more than 80% either >>> Hispanic or black. Obama has a better chance of being elected Governor of >>> Utah than Dash has of being elected Congresswomen in CA-44 >>> >>> * Even though Hispanic is an ethnicity, since such a large fraction of >>> Americans who identify as Hispanic also decline to identify a race (which >>> is included in the code “not white”), for most practical purposes Hispanic >>> gets treated as another racial category, parallel with white, Black, >>> Asian/Pacific Islander etc, and within certain tolerances that works. I >>> would prefer to eliminate racial categories all together and treat them all >>> as ethnicities, since I think that is what they are, and “race” invokes a >>> biological essentialism which is a holdover from the scientific racism of >>> the 19th century, but that is another matter. >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 7:48 PM Tom Wolper <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:56 PM, PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I don’t know that this is a true statement. As I said, Hispanic is an >>>>> ethnicity, white is a racial category. It is obviously possible for >>>>> someone >>>>> to be both Hispanic and White. I do not think it is possible for a person >>>>> to be in error in identifying themselves as Hispanic but not white. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Maybe it's enough to say there is a big enough gray area to make the >>>> demographics meaningless. Take a grandchild of immigrants from a Latin >>>> American country whose parents were brought up speaking English and the >>>> (now adult) grandchild can't functionally speak Spanish. Add that the >>>> parents did well for themselves and the adult grandchild spent no time in a >>>> barrio. Even if s/he is labeled a Hispanic by the census or in some other >>>> demographic listing, how relevant is that? Or take a young man with the >>>> last name of Gonzalez but his only Hispanic grandparent was his father's >>>> father from whom he gets the name. His 7 other grandparents are of German, >>>> Irish, Scandinavian and Italian extraction. How relevant is it to label him >>>> Hispanic? >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. 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