They don’t really need the quotation marks in that headline. On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 2:59 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> wrote:
> Aaaaaaaand Dash has dropped out of the race "after much prayer" > > Amen to that > > > https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/30/politics/stacey-dash-withdraws-congressional-race/index.html?sr=twCNN033018stacey-dash-withdraws-congressional-race0405PMStory > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Steve Timko <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Stacey Dash says she’s ‘not here to judge’ neo-Nazis in first TV >> interview since declaring congressional bid >> >> >> Link >> <http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/stacey-dash-not-judge-neo-nazis-article-1.3864252> >> >> On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 3:22 AM, PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Few arguments are simultaneously more passionate and arcane as those >>> about the US Census Race and Ethnicity questions. I have been involved in a >>> lot of these over the years, and will inhibit the impulse to get deep in >>> those weeds here. I will point out two things: >>> >>> 1. Nothing that you refer to here supports the idea that US Hispanics >>> who choose not to identify as “white” are somehow in error. This has been >>> My main concern with your original claim. The US Government does not try >>> and tell people what their racial and ethnic identification is or should >>> be. US citizens (almost) always self identify (the exception to this is in >>> the case of some native ethnicities). If George Lopez does not want to >>> identify as white, he does not have to, and he is not in error if he >>> chooses not to. >>> >>> 2. The SOR problem is a function of the option introduced in the 2000 >>> Census to choose more than one racial designation, or none. The solution >>> the OMB is moving towards is actually in the direction that I favor (as I >>> noted in my previous post) of combining race and ethnicity. In that case, >>> people will be able to identify as “Hispanic” (specifying, if they like, >>> which specific Hispanic group they come from) as an alternative to >>> identifying as any race. Of course, people will also have the option of >>> marking Hispanic and one or more other race boxes. >>> >>> The OMB pilot data suggests that this will reduce the number of people >>> who elect to mark no box (which is what has been bugging OMB). >>> >>> Your statement that according to the OMB vision Hispanics who aren’t >>> Black, Asian or indigenous are supposed to describe themselves as white is >>> only kind of accurate, in the same way that you could also say Hispanics >>> who aren’t white, Asian or indigenous are supposed to identify as Black. >>> What OMB wants is for most people, using the old system, to select some >>> racial identification. But even under the current system, Hispanics are >>> free to select more than one racial category (just as anyone else is). But >>> what is not true is that most Hispanics are *really* white, and are wrong >>> unless they so identify. As I say, the 2015 National Content Test (you can >>> download it here: >>> https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial/2020/program-management/final-analysis-reports/2015nct-race-ethnicity-analysis.pdf >>> - >>> see in particular page 7 and page 26 ) suggests that in the future, some >>> Hispanics may elect to identify simply as Hispanic, and not check any >>> additional racial designation. This basically collapses the idea of >>> ethnicity and race, which as I say is the direction I think we should be >>> going in. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 10:21 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The race and ethnicity categories are set up by the Office of >>>> Management and Budget. As the OMB envisions it, Hispanics who aren't black, >>>> Asian or indigenous are supposed to describe themselves as white. >>>> "In fact, in 2000 and in 2010, the Some Other Race (SOR) population, >>>> which was intended to be a small residual category, was the third largest >>>> race group. This was primarily due to reporting by Hispanics, who make up >>>> the overwhelming majority of those classified as SOR, not identifying with >>>> any of the OMB race categories." >>>> https://www.census.gov/about/our-research/race-ethnicity.html >>>> >>>> So they talk about doing a better job communicating to them. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:53 PM, PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Again, Hispanic is an ethnicity. It does not refer to language, >>>>> nationality, (though both of those have some relationship) SES or race. >>>>> Yes, it is true that for some people ethnic designation would not have >>>>> meaning, but that does not mean the designation is meaningless for most >>>>> people. For most of the people who identify as Hispanic in CA 44, the >>>>> designation is very meaningful. >>>>> >>>>> I don’t know how George Lopez identifies, but most Mexican Americans >>>>> identify as Hispanic, non-white.* That means their ethnicity is Hispanic >>>>> and their race is not white. I don’t know of any valid criteria that would >>>>> allow anyone to say that is an incorrect identification. >>>>> >>>>> All of this is relevant here because, in CA at least, Hispanics and >>>>> Blacks have a significant tendency to vote Democratic. Staci Dash will be >>>>> running as a Republican in a SoCal district that is more than 80% either >>>>> Hispanic or black. Obama has a better chance of being elected Governor of >>>>> Utah than Dash has of being elected Congresswomen in CA-44 >>>>> >>>>> * Even though Hispanic is an ethnicity, since such a large fraction of >>>>> Americans who identify as Hispanic also decline to identify a race (which >>>>> is included in the code “not white”), for most practical purposes Hispanic >>>>> gets treated as another racial category, parallel with white, Black, >>>>> Asian/Pacific Islander etc, and within certain tolerances that works. I >>>>> would prefer to eliminate racial categories all together and treat them >>>>> all >>>>> as ethnicities, since I think that is what they are, and “race” invokes a >>>>> biological essentialism which is a holdover from the scientific racism of >>>>> the 19th century, but that is another matter. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 7:48 PM Tom Wolper <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 9:56 PM, PGage <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I don’t know that this is a true statement. As I said, Hispanic is >>>>>>> an ethnicity, white is a racial category. It is obviously possible for >>>>>>> someone to be both Hispanic and White. I do not think it is possible >>>>>>> for a >>>>>>> person to be in error in identifying themselves as Hispanic but not >>>>>>> white. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe it's enough to say there is a big enough gray area to make the >>>>>> demographics meaningless. Take a grandchild of immigrants from a Latin >>>>>> American country whose parents were brought up speaking English and the >>>>>> (now adult) grandchild can't functionally speak Spanish. Add that the >>>>>> parents did well for themselves and the adult grandchild spent no time >>>>>> in a >>>>>> barrio. Even if s/he is labeled a Hispanic by the census or in some other >>>>>> demographic listing, how relevant is that? Or take a young man with the >>>>>> last name of Gonzalez but his only Hispanic grandparent was his father's >>>>>> father from whom he gets the name. His 7 other grandparents are of >>>>>> German, >>>>>> Irish, Scandinavian and Italian extraction. How relevant is it to label >>>>>> him >>>>>> Hispanic? >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Kevin M. (RPCV) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
