No problem. But it does prompt me to repeat Some things more succinctly from my initial post that probably got lost in my long and boring elaborations:
1. This is not a First Amendment Issue 2. It is a Free Speech issue (which goes beyond what is constitutional and legal, and goes to a broader culture of free expression, including such things as academic freedom and equal access to even private platforms). There is no fundamental legal right to “free speech” - to protection from non-governmental restriction, but the expectation that all parties will have equal access to expression in any particular forum (in the context of whatever limitations are placed on all parties equally) is an important part of a larger free and democratic culture based on and essential for the proper implementation of the Constitutional freedom. 3. Facebook is allowed to ban Jones if it wants to (being an asshole is not a protected class) 4. The question is, ought Facebook to ban Jones? I think the answer is probably (hopefully) yes, but I think that depends on the quality and specificity of the the terms of service in place at the time. I fear the relevant terms are too vague, and lead to arbitrary and biased implementation that make room for the tyranny of the majority. The answer to the question does not (should not) depend on how many people don’t like Jones, or how passionately they dislike him. 5. It is hard (not impossible) to write specific criteria that would cover people like Jones but not people like Rush LImbaugh or Michael Moore. It is important though. 5. I don’t give a shit about Alex Jones. I do give a shit about lots of other potentially unpopular speakers. On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 5:17 AM Doug Fields <[email protected]> wrote: > Sorry...my mail reader broke this topic up into several different threads, > and I missed the majority of well thought out back-and-forth that many of > you have posted in the last 24 hours. If I'd read those first, my response > would've been a lot more reasoned and nuanced, and a lot less simplistic > and flippant. > > > My bad. > > > Doug Fields > > Tampa, FL > ------------------------------ > *From:* Doug Fields > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 8, 2018 8:11:13 AM > *To:* TV or Not TV > *Subject:* Re: Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Semi-OT: InfoWars accounts suspended > across digital media > > Once *again*, for the people who cut 8th grade Civics too many times...the > 1st Amendment grants you protection from the *government* prosecuting you > for things you say. *That* is the one and only definition of "free speech" > protection granted by the Constitution. Yes, you can say anything you > damned well please. No, you are most definitely *not* protected from the > ramifications that will come as a response to what you say. And no one > else is required to help you spread your message on their property or via > their platforms, as long as they're not discriminating against you for some > explicitly prohibited reason. > > Doug Fields > Tampa, FL > ------------------------------ > *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf > of Steve Timko <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 7, 2018 6:25:03 PM > *To:* TV or Not TV > *Subject:* Re: [TV orNotTV] Re: Semi-OT: InfoWars accounts suspended > across digital media > > If porn and stripping are free speech issues then Alex Jones is a free > speech issue. > > Not sent from an iPhone > On Aug 7, 2018, at 1:27 PM, "Kevin M." <[email protected]> wrote: > > I’m amazed at seemingly intelligent writers claiming this is a free speech > issue. It’s a business decision. It turns out having a guy in your > establishment screaming threats and insults at children is bad for > business. As others have said, if you ran a bookstore or managed an office > and there was some lunatic shouting at the top of his lungs, you’d ask him > to quiet down or leave. Facebook and YouTube didn’t deny him service, they > suspended him after he abused the service. > > On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 1:22 PM Steve Timko < [email protected]> wrote: > > I tuned in to Alex Jones' stream for a few minutes this morning. He said > Apple's Tim Cook is leading the attack on him. Is that a dog whistle way of > saying the gays are against him? > He also said the Fox News owners owners won't let the Fox News hosts speak > honestly about him getting yanked off YouTube and social media. > > Not sent from an iPhone > On Aug 6, 2018, at 6:25 PM, Steve Timko < [email protected]> wrote: > > Loved this Tweet. > > https://twitter.com/joshgondelman/status/1026629178484051971?s=19 > > On Mon, Aug 6, 2018, 5:45 PM 'Greg Diener' via TVorNotTV < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 1:26:26 PM UTC-4, Kevin M. (RPCV) wrote: > > Spotify, YouTube, Facebook, and iTunes... to name a few. > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/06/technology/infowars-alex-jones-apple-facebook-spotify.html > > Still allowed on Twitter, though. > > > Of course he's still allowed on Twitter that would imply that Jack Dorsey > would have one ounce of courage inside his body. > > Greg > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > Kevin M. (RPCV) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
