Paul: "Scalability is what you lose when going UBNT or MT" Agreed! Fortunately, at least in my case, 900 is only needed where the population density is very sparse. I doubt I'd ever see more than 10 subs. Which why spending $2500 is hard to condone. If I had more subs to get in these areas I'd have already gone with Cambium.
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 5:31 PM, Paul Tackett via Ubnt_users < ubnt_users@wispa.org> wrote: > We only have 1 PMP450i in 900Mhz and I can parrot what the others have > said. Except maybe never having to go back as we still have the occasional > truck roll for one reason or another. > > > > Probably the only NLOS solution that has been at least somewhat effective. > We have a few Mikrotik 900Mhz sectors and it appears that Metal 9Mhz are no > longer available so I may be in a spot where I’ll need to pick up > additional PMP450i 900Mhz to replace with. > > > > Expensive but far more scalable. Scalability is what you lose when going > UBNT or MT. Good for 18, put 19 and 20 on there, phone starts ringing off > the hook… > > > > Paul Tackett, COO > > (406)284-3174x105 > > p...@latmt.com > > [image: LAT-Web-Logo-Small] > > > > *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org] > *On Behalf Of *Tommy Adams > *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 14:09 > *To:* 'Ubiquiti Users Group' <ubnt_users@wispa.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz > > > > Now ours is not loaded up too heavily, only 12 clients. We sell every > speed we offer which is up to 16 meg for home users. Most of the clients > on this tower ore on our 5 or 8 meg package. Looking at the graphs, this > sector is hitting 25 meg frequently, but there is about 60-70 meg of > channel available, we are running in 20 MHz. Prior to this, we could only > sell people our $30-$50 packages and they complained about the speed. I > see our one last UBNT 900 top out at 6-8 meg every night with about the > same number of people on it. We are buying a couple of SM’s a month and > when we get enough for all the customers will do a quick change out of the > tower and customers to the PMP gear. > > > > Overall experience with the PMP 900 is really good. We tried it in 10 MHz > and it worked great then thought why not try 20 MHz and it still did > great. We have a lot of frequency hopping electric meters and gas wells in > our area. I think placement is a big thing too. I would not put this gear > on a water tower next to the major highway. Not saying it would not work, > but the if you can see the horizon, then the frequency can hear the > horizon. We use this gear is a bowl of hills and trees. In fact we did > not even mount it way above the trees. It is only 20 feet above the trees > with down tilt. Our furthest customer through what we consider thick trees > in north Texas is about ½ mile. We do have some customers a little over a > mile away as well that could not get a clean LOS to the same tower. The > gear is a real learning experience and not terribly friendly to work with. > That being said, if a customer calls in and is experience issues, we do not > even ask them to reboot the PMP SM. We start with their router and 95% of > the time this resolves their issue. > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Tommy Adams > > Network Administrator > > Digitex.com > > > > 817.558.6230 Voice > > 817.558.1204 Fax > > > > > > > > *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org> *On > Behalf Of *RickG > *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 2:51 PM > *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group <ubnt_users@wispa.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz > > > > Thanks Tommy! What speeds are people seeing out there on the Cambium 900s? > I dont trust marketing hype so real word input is very valuable in asking > these types of decisions. > > > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Tommy Adams <tomm...@digitex.net> wrote: > > All I know is we install PMP450i 900 and we never visit the customer > again. Also, when you think about it, the equipment may cost 5k, but I > would rather have 5 customers bringing in $250/month ($50 package) than the > 5k. Also, it is not uncommon for companies to charge a higher installation > fee or slightly higher rates when using NLOS equipment. The additional > cost must be absorbed by the company or passed on to the consumer. There > are a number of wonderful lease to own deals out there that do not break > the bank. We have used Ascentium Capital in the past for emergency > upgrades to all our wireless backhauls. I know most everyone on here is a > big UBNT fan, it is after all a UBNT forum, but some of their products are > not very good. This is one of them. Talking to them at Wispapolooza last > year, there does not sound like any upgrades are coming for the 900 or > 3.65. We have deployed Cambium PMP gear in both frequencies and are glad > to spend the money. It is a real jump in quality. Now would I deploy > PMP450 in a low end trailer park, not likely. We use UBNT, PMP, ePMP and > even some Mikrotik in our network. > > > > Good luck… > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Tommy Adams > > Network Administrator > > Digitex.com > > > > 817.558.6230 Voice > > 817.558.1204 Fax > > > > > > > > *From:* ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org <ubnt_users-boun...@wispa.org> *On > Behalf Of *RickG > *Sent:* Thursday, May 31, 2018 1:42 PM > *To:* Ubiquiti Users Group <ubnt_users@wispa.org> > *Subject:* Re: [Ubnt_users] UBNET 900Mhz > > > > JP, I apologize if you took my comment as a personal offense, it was not > directed at you but rather I was sharing my experience in a moment of > "weakness" :P > > Either way, no need to reply because we've definitely beaten this horse to > death. That said, thanks again! > > > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:33 PM, J Portman <ba...@baron.com> wrote: > > Easy enough to verify, the stock sale was registered with the SEC. > > 5 minutes of research on Google will give you a pretty good idea of who I > am, what I own, etc. > > And, I think this is the last time I will ever respond to you, since I > don't fancy being called a prevaricator. > > Please, please, please, ignore all my advice. > > > > JP > > *On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:26:18 -0400, RickG wrote* > > > JP, With all due respect, I know and have known many "millionaires" - > until you see their balance sheet and realize they owe more than they own. > With that said, if you've done better than they, then congratulations are > in order. I do appreciate your input, so thanks for that! > > > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:11 PM, J Portman <ba...@baron.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > I became a multimillionaire through the judicious use of debt. > > > > Went from 0 to $2.1 million a year in 4.5 years, from 0 to 11000 dialup > customers. > > Could not have done it with cash. :) > > > > I have Jim Hollis (fispa) to thank for opening my eyes to cash flow > based financing. > > > > Nothing major gets built without leverage. > > > > YMMV, > > JP > > > > *On Thu, 31 May 2018 14:04:59 -0400, RickG wrote* > > > > > Ah, that's the difference between us - I run a debt free company. > > > > > > On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 11:23 AM, J Portman <ba...@baron.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Well, if there is no other service available, $50/month is too low. :) > SB able to charge more. Good price is $69.95. > > > > > > $10000*.035 = $350 month for 60 months. (and that is a VERY expensive > lease). > > > > > > 10 customers at $70 = $700/month. $350 profit off the jump. > Acceptable, but not 'juicy'. :) > > > > > > 20 customers at $70 = $1400/month (per sector) = $1000 profit per > month (per sector). Now we're talking. > > > > > > We have hundreds of no-go site surveys that might work with 900 if we > can beat the interference from CPS Energy. > > > > > > Get better lease terms and profit goes up. > > > > > > Charge an installation fee to cover some of your upfront costs as > well. $199 seems reasonable if no other service is available. > > > Add in a managed router service (or anything you can think of to drive > ARPU up). > > > > > > Now your upfront for 20 customers = $4000 for radios and $6000 for > sector with backup. (you only need ONE backup BTW) > > > Second sector is only $7K for 20 customers. > > > > > > And the beat goes on. > > > > > > $350/month for lease payment vs $1400 for incoming cash flow. I'd make > that deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday. > > > > > > But that's just me. :) > > > > > > YMMV. > > > > > > JP > > > > > > > > > *On Wed, 30 May 2018 23:50:32 -0400, RickG wrote* > CAMBIUM: > > > > Outlay: AP (x2 for backup) $5000 + CPE/Antenna (x 11) $4400 + Labor > $600 = TOTAL: $10000 (not including bandwidth & support)Inflow: 10 > customers @ $50/month = $500/month > > > > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 20 months > > > > > > > > UBNT: > > > > Outlay: AP ($250 (x2 for backup) $500 + CPE/Antenna (x11) $2750 + > Labor $600 = TOTAL: $3600 > > > > Inflow: 10 customers @ $50/month = $500/month > > > > ROI (Not counting labor or any issues): 7.2 months > > > > > > > > That's a big difference, especially when you consider my ROI on LOS > subs is much, much less! 3 cheers for LOS! Too bad everyone is not LOS! :) > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 10:08 PM, J Portman <ba...@baron.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You think so? Take a look at ANY of the LTE solutions and then come > talk about cost. :) > > > > > > > > 2500 for an AP seems steep, but amortizes VERY quickly with 10 > clients. > > > > > > > > JP > > > > > > > > *On Tue, 29 May 2018 23:58:02 -0400, RickG wrote* > > > > > > > > > > > > Cambium 450i 900 is very pricey! > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Josh Luthman < > j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Cambium came out with their 450i in 900 in the last couple years. > > > > > > > > > > Josh Luthman > > > > > Office: 937-552-2340 > > > > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > > > > > 1100 Wayne St > > > > > Suite 1337 > > > > > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 29, 2018, 12:54 PM Clay Stewart < > cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What to expect with the best of experiences. Expect 4-10Mbps in > foliage and at least 100' over treetops on a tower. We have a bit of hill > which makes the difference for eight over the terrain. I would be hard > press to deploy in flat land with foliage. As with any frequency, it is > Terrain, Terrain Terrain... and height. > > > > > > > > > > Get recommendations from someone who has similar terrain, as > opinions will always matter between those WISPs in various conditions. > > > > > > > > > > If you have no pending competition in next 24-36 months and have > customers that can only be serviced via 900Mhz, then try it out. That is > enough time to recover investment and make something. > > > > > > > > > > I agree though, nothing has been done with 900Mhz in a long time, > not even a shielded radio like the TIs, or a better, lighter sector > shielding which costs wind load and weight issue for commercial leases. > > > > > > > > > > We are converting from 900Mhz at a pace required for each market > where possible. But I expect we will have them for awhile in many spots. > Hell, we still have a few Alvarians collecting money! > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Clay Stewart < > cstew...@scsbroadband.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > You have to use Rocket Yagis with Shielded Sectors to make it work > in foliage areas. > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, May 26, 2018 at 3:16 PM, Ralf-Talking Head Productions < > r...@thpi.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am interested in Ubiquitie's 900Mhz radios and need real life > experience input. > > > > > > > > > > Do they cut through heavy pine trees? > > > > > What is the real distance I can archive through pine trees? > > > > > Does it have sufficient bandwidth throughput? > > > > > I have 3 customers who would like to sign up. They are about one > mile away from the tower. The distance is through heavy pine trees about 80 > to 100 feet tall. Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > > Thank you in advance for your reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > *Ralf > > > > Gulf Wireless Inc. > > > > * > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Ubnt_users mailing list > > > > > Ubnt_users@wispa.org > > > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Ubnt_users mailing list > > > > > Ubnt_users@wispa.org > > > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Ubnt_users mailing list > > > > > Ubnt_users@wispa.org > > > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > -RickG > > > > > > > > Joe Portman > > > > Alamo Broadband Inc. > > > > www.alamobroadband.com > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ubnt_users mailing list > > > > Ubnt_users@wispa.org > > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > -RickG > > > > > > Joe Portman > > > Alamo Broadband Inc. > > > www.alamobroadband.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ubnt_users mailing list > > > Ubnt_users@wispa.org > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > -RickG > > > > Joe Portman > > Alamo Broadband Inc. > > www.alamobroadband.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ubnt_users mailing list > > Ubnt_users@wispa.org > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -RickG > > > Joe Portman > Alamo Broadband Inc. > www.alamobroadband.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Ubnt_users mailing list > Ubnt_users@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users > > > > > > -- > > -RickG > > > _______________________________________________ > Ubnt_users mailing list > Ubnt_users@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users > > > > > > -- > > -RickG > > > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> > Virus-free. > www.avast.com > <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link> > <#m_-1457554576571301842_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > _______________________________________________ > Ubnt_users mailing list > Ubnt_users@wispa.org > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/ubnt_users > > -- -RickG
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