Tamblyne wrote:
Here! Here! Just imagine my surprise when, after being unsubscribed from this group for two years, I came back to it to find myself in the middle of an argument over whether or not PPP users should get help here! How many copies of PPP were sold, do you suppose? 50,000? 100,000? 500,000? 1,000,000? Whatever number it is, you can bet one thing: the overwhelming majority of those who bought OpenOffice in PPP form had never even heard of OOo before doing so, and they are people who would not be using OOo otherwise! They're just people looking for a productivity suite that doesn't cost $499, and they shop in places like OfficeMax, WalMart, Best Buy, and such, where $29.99 software is sold. Believe me, OpenOffice will never be truly popular until people can use it as easily as they use the market leaders today, and groups like this one are invaluable if they stay focused on helping people to gain competency in using any of the many versions of OpenOffice currently in circulation. It should be remembered that the project itself has distributed so many versions and betas since the release of 1.0 that a certain amount of confusion is inherent in the process. So, why draw the line at PPP? Clearly, most of you already know a great deal about that distribution, after all, and some are only feigning ignorance for philosophical reasons.I would hate to see the value of this list watered down.
You mean more than it already has been by this thread?
I hate to break this to the "purists" in the group, but every time you go shopping someone somewhere is making money off of your "hard work". And the last time I checked, Sun was a business, not an altruistic organization.
I found OOo a couple of years ago after over a week of searching for a reasonably priced alternative to MS and WordPerfect -- it wasn't easy to find. It still isn't. And when I *did* find it, I thought it was almost too good to be true.
Distribution is the KEY to getting this program "out there". While I adamantly support *every* individual's right to use their time and resources in the manner they see fit, is it really necessary to make yourself feel "bigger" by making others feel "smaller"? For some, it is. The insecurity and lack of self-confidence that drives some of you, and the way you take your frustrations out on the unsuspecting frankly makes me want to barf.
I, for one, have reached my limit. Not only with the users list, but with the whole project in general. I find, one by one, I've removed myself from almost every OOo project I was even remotely interested in.
The bullies and trolls don't outnumber the people I *do* like to read, but they certainly are more vocal -- and impressed with themselves.
I have had it with the bunch (you know who you are, and so does everyone else) who see their participation on this list, and in the projects, as a way to boost their ego and try to impress others with how wonderful they are, even to the detriment of the project itself. How can you, on the one hand, espouse your superior intellect and knowledge ad nauseum and then, on the other hand, pretend to be so dense as to not know what an OP is talking about? You can't -- you're just being vile and mean.
How you can say distribution of OOo (and heaven forbid actually making a profit from it) is worse than treating people like roaches is beyond me. You have decided what your time is worth, and taken it upon yourself to also decide what other's time and resources are worth. What is a reasonable "profit" in the distribution of *any* open source software? One dollar? Ten? And unless you have access to the financial records of the person or company in question, you don't really *know* what the profit is, now do you? But of course, lack of facts never stops these people from spouting their vitriolic nonsense.
What you put into your mind is even more important than what you put into your body -- and I can't swallow this tripe anymore.
Spring is here -- and that means nesting. And nesting means cleansing. Life is much to short to waste it watching some of you beat people up like schoolyard bullies.
Tam
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As the technology director at a small, private, not-for-profit boarding school, I have been able to prevail on our school staff to adopt OpenOffice 2.0 at the beginning of the next school year, replacing Microsoft Office 2000 as the productivity suite used by our students. I do so believing that OOo has a place in our future, that the product is already sound, and will only get better in the years to come. I urged that the school make a commitment that will ultimately save us thousands of dollars in licensing fees. We have already been using OOo on a limited basis as a complement to MSO since the release of version 1.0, but now we will actually be removing MSO from student computers this summer, replacing it with the final release of OOo 2.0, which I trust will be done before the first day of school this fall.
I would like to refer teachers to this group as a source of help and, in fact, just re-subscribed to it myself to see what was going on here. As it stands, I would hesitate to refer a new user here for help, if they are likely to be exposed to the sort of bickering I've seen going on the last couple of days. When trying to sell a new product, and encourage support of the open source software development effort, my intention is to paint an image of a happy family of contributors with a positive view toward new and experienced users alike. I am obviously not the only person who feels this way. From the standpoint of a consumer of the services provided here, I can tell you that Peter Kupfer has the attitude that will endear new users, not chase them away. It seems you would be well advised to take your arguments to another venue, and present a happy face to the general OOo using public, many of whom don't know much about computing, but are keenly aware when they're being insulted.
Having said that, I need to go back to work trying to print a simple #10 envelope in Writer, which I have unsuccessfully been attempting for an hour now, using the Insert>Envelope tool in the latest OOo distribution. It takes about a minute in Microsoft Works or Word, so why is it so glitchy in OOo?
Dan Juroff (an OpenOffice user since 2002)
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