Hi,
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 09:10, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. <
ricardo.rodrig...@ebiotic.net> wrote:
>
>
> Vincent Massol wrote:
> > On Nov 2, 2010, at 11:12 PM, Jerome Velociter wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Hi Vincent, all,
> >>
> >> See below
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Nov 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thibaut Camberlin wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Jerome Velociter <jer...@xwiki.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Actually I've been thinking maybe we could provide a Macros/ space
> >>>>> with XE. The home page would be a improved version of the current
> >>>>> XWiki.WikiMacros page (adding for example a ClassSheet for macros, a
> >>>>> form to create a new macro, some documentation, etc.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> WDYT?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> This polishing would empower a standard user to use this XWiki
> advanced
> >>>> feature.
> >>>>
> >>> I don't quite agree. Standard users shouldn't see this space. it's
> something technical and 99% of wiki users don't want/need to see it (and
> they won't even understand it). So for me this space would need to be hidden
> from simple users (same as for other tech spaces).
> >>>
> >> Then we should probably hide them from the WYSIWYG tooIbar too, I guess
> ;)
> >>
> >> Seriously, the space could be blacklisted, but it should be discussed,
> >> I'm not sure we want to have only admins seing it (personally I see
> >> that space as being "documentation on macros existing in the wiki"
> >> before being "a place to create new macros" - so not so technical in
> >> the end).
> >>
> >
> > The reason is simple. Most people come to the wiki as a place where to
> find information (not as contributors) and they'll see the list of spaces
> listed on the home page mixed with spaces containing real content for that
> wiki. All I want is a separation between "business content" and technical
> content. I'm fine if we have 2 space lists on the home page, one for each
> type of content. But I really don't like to mix the two kind of content.
> >
>
> This categorization would also welcome here. It is been hard to me to
> explain to "regular users" what is the difference between business
> content and technical content as Vicent called that different nature
> documents. Even talking with tech-skilled people, is by no means easy to
> explain that one thing are contents produced by the community they are
> going to create/support by using a new XWiki installation and the
> contains produced/updated by the XWiki community in subsequent releases.
>
> To tag in any simple way those contents in a way they could be
> hidden/shown, could even also helps, IMO, the upgrade and backup
> operations.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
+1 for a better separation as well. I regularly give demos of XWiki and
landing on a first page with all the technical spaces is indeed confusing
for users.
Guillaume
> >> Maybe in some distant future we should have an intermediary level
> >> between "Normal users" and "Admins". BTW do users that chose to be
> >> "Advanced Users" in their profile see the blacklisted spaces ?
> >>
> >
> > yes.
> >
> >
> >> Maybe
> >> the intermediary level could be this one.
> >>
> >
> > I don't think we need one ATM.
> >
> >
> >>> I'm not sure what the proposal is about exactly.
> >>>
> >> Well it's not a proposal yet, rather an idea.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Some open questions: Would the macros stay where they are currently
> located?
> >>>
> >> If you ask me some should be moved already (like {{spaces}} and
> >> {{tags}}), since they are located in documents that already have
> >> another purpose, and thus can not benefit from a potential
> >> WikiMacroClassSheet (that for example could display the usage of the
> >> macro and its parameters ; thus becoming a sort of self-contained
> >> documentation for the held macro)
> >>
> >
> > Well I'm not sure. IMO the dashboard should be moved to a dashboard
> application and that spaces macro could be moved to that dashboard
> application.
> > Recent Activity should be moved to an Activity application too and the
> activity macro there too.
> >
> > Basically I still believe strongly that we need to list all our default
> XE pages and assign them an application. I had done that exercise one and
> created the jira components in XE asa result. Maybe we should revisit this
> and do this mapping now?
> >
> >
> >>> Shouldn't macros stay with their apps?
> >>>
> >> Yes they should.
> >> Right now we don't even have a rule for where to put applications
> >> documents (in their own space ? with a Code suffix ? in the XWiki
> >> space ? somewhere else ?)
> >>
> >
> > Yes we need to define that too. We've been quite poor in term of wiki
> content organization and as a result I feel that our default wiki content is
> a bit of a disorganized mess. We should improve. Want to lead a proposal?
> >
> >
> >> I think the (not existing) UI at Macros.WebHome should retrieve and
> >> list documents from the entire wiki, not just the Macros space.
> >>
> >
> > I agree
> >
> >
> >> Same
> >> as the scheduler (I changed that behavior just recently by the way - I
> >> wanted my application scheduler jobs in my application space, not in
> >> the Scheduler space - see http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XASCH-56)
> >>
> >
> > Yep seen that and I agree.
> >
> >
> >>> Does it mean a new platform/application in svn?
> >>>
> >> There is already one : the "wikibridge" I think, with just one
> >> document now (the name is not correct though, I agree)
> >>
> >
> > Agree, it's a good place and it should be renamed or merged with another
> app, all depending if we find that there are macros that don't belong to any
> specific app.
> >
> >
> >>> What macros go there? When do we use wiki macros vs java macros (we
> haven't really decided on this I think)?
> >>>
> >> I'm quite sure you will not agree, but I would say generic (i.e. not
> >> tied to a particular application) wiki macros could go there. For
> >> example {{spaces /}} or even {{activity /}} which goes beyond just the
> >> dashboard app.
> >>
> >
> > See comment above about the dashboard and activity apps.
> >
> >
> >>> Will java macros also be listed on that home page (they should IMO)?
> >>>
> >> Yes they should. Maybe not under the exact same form, but they
> >> definitely should be listed and documented here
> >>
> >>
> >>> Generally speaking I'm rather +1 (I'd like macros to stay in their apps
> though).
> >>>
> >> Cool. I'm +1 too and +1 to have the possibility for apps to bring
> >> their own macros.
> >>
> >
> > Let's continue this discussion.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> >
> >> Jerome.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> -Vincent
> >>>
> >>> PS: I didn't even know about
> http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/XWiki/WikiMacros ;) I wonder why it's
> not already using a livetable....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Here is my +1.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Jerome
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Arnaud bourree <
> arnaud.bour...@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> 2010/11/2 Thomas Mortagne <thomas.morta...@xwiki.com>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:14, Caleb James DeLisle
> >>>>>>> <calebdeli...@lavabit.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If you're contributing a macro then just log in and fgo to this
> page.
> >>>>>>>> http://code.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Macros/CreateMacro
> >>>>>>>> It will put the macro in the Macros space and automatically add it
> to
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>> the index.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks for contributing to code.xwiki.org ;)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think Thomas was talking about his how macro space, not where to
> put
> >>>>>>> contributed macro documentation.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, thanks Thomas,
> >>>>>> I decided to used Macros space.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Arnaud.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Caleb
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 11/02/2010 04:57 AM, Arnaud bourree wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 2010/11/2 Caleb James DeLisle <calebdeli...@lavabit.com>:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> In your own wiki I think you want to put macros in a space where
> you
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> will be able to find them
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> easily. The XWiki space is full of important internals and I
> wouldn't
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> recommend putting any macros
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> in there.
> >>>>>>>>>> "Macros" sounds like a fine choice.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I ask question more for macro we contribute to
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Arnaud.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Caleb
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/02/2010 04:40 AM, Arnaud bourree wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Where is the best space to put macros?
> >>>>>>>>>>> I check in some macro from code.xwiki.org, and find that
> macros are
> >>>>>>>>>>> commonly put in XWiki, Macros or Macro space.
> >>>>>>>>>>> I've a preference for Macros as it self explanatory and I think
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> XWiki
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> space more dedicated to XE pages.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Arnaud.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> > _______________________________________________
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> > users@xwiki.org
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >
> >
>
> --
> Ricardo RodrÃguez
> CTO
> eBioTIC.
> Life Sciences, Data Modeling and Information Management Systems
>
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