Interesting posts. If you think your flies are artistic take them to an art
dealer or art gallery and see how the population views your work.I believe
there is a fine line between art and top quality craftmanship.
Regards
Mel
----- Original Message -----
From: Niclas Runarsson
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 4:05 AM
Subject: [VFB] Artistic Fly Swap Clarification
Confused...
"For the list"... followed by an angry man-to-man message to Jimmy. Why do
you want the list to know that you're coming down on him... support?
/Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf
Of jim phillips
Sent: 07 June 2009 05:37
To: [email protected]
Subject: FW: [VFB] Re: Artistic Fly Swap Clarification
For Mark
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: RE: [VFB] Re: Artistic Fly Swap Clarification
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:08:40 -0600
for the list...........
Jimmy, NEVER, EVER speak for me..........you have no idea what your doing.
And obviously you do not keep track of current emails. I have recently told Don
that i absolutely DO consider his work ART. Guess you missed that. You
obviously also missed where i have VERY recently clarified Jim Phillips
mistakes in my original clarification, (he had inserted some words of his own,
including that bit bout "using exotic materials, fancy beads, and silk
thread".....HIS words, NOT mine), so keep up to date if your gonna challange,
or cause controversey. Bottom line, ART is something you "Know" when you see
it. Just ask Stevie Wonder. mark.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:10:32 -0500
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [VFB] Re: Artistic Fly Swap Clarification
Who's to say what's art/artistic and what's not. Even though Mark doesn't
feel that way, Dono's monster/Super sized flies are definitely ART in my book.
I don't feel that using exotic materials, fancy beads and silk thread make a
fly a work of art. What is art ? what qualifies as art. To muddy the ART
water somewhat, I offer the following that I gleaned from Google. "The
definition of art is controversial in contemporary philosophy. Whether art can
be defined has also been a matter of controversy. The philosophical usefulness
of a definition of art has also been debated. Contemporary definitions are of
two main sorts. One distinctively modern, conventionalist, sort of definition
focuses on art's institutional features, emphasizing the way art changes over
time, modern works that appear to break radically with all traditional art, and
the relational properties of artworks that depend on works' relations to art
history, art genres, etc. The less conventionalist sort of contemporary
definition makes use of a broader, more traditional concept of aesthetic
properties that includes more than art-relational ones, and focuses on art's
pan-cultural and trans-historical characteristics. From the Standard
Encyclopedia of Philosophy.
“It is not at all clear that these words – ‘What is art?’ – express
anything like a single question, to which competing answers are given, or
whether philosophers proposing answers are even engaged in the same debate….
The sheer variety of proposed definitions should give us pause. One cannot help
wondering whether there is any sense in which they are attempts to … clarify
the same cultural practices, or address the same issue.”
From the Standard Encyclopedia of Philosophy.
In other words, what I classify as art, when compared to what you classify
as art can be totally different, while both can still be classified as ART !
We had a thread about this some years back with several VFB members joining
the discussion. Is fly tying an art or simply a craft. Below are some of the
comments.
Re: [VFB] new super realistic fly
2002/04/07 I would urge all fly tyers to take a look at what can be
achieved. Vlad has demonstrated that fly tying (as shown on his mosquito web
page) can transcend craft and achieve the status of fine art. Thank you Vlad
for sharing your art with us. Ed At 01:50 PM 4/6/02, you wrote: Hi -- Ed
Engelman/Sue Atkinson
RE: [VFB] new super realistic fly
2002/04/07 Dear Listers I want to say thanks for your kind words and
interest to this my fly. Super realistic flies have no the practical purpose
like almost all kinds of fine art, they only can give few minutes of pleasure
looking at them (or many week while tying them) and I very proud that you like
-- Vlad Markov
Have A Good Day.
JIMMY D
Jim Phillips wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: for the list.....
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 23:26:01 -0600
Guys, just so we're clear..........the "NO recipes Fly Swap" is NOT
something that is about flies for fishing............i got one reply already
from someone who seems to think that flies, "that work for me" is what i'm
looking for.......usually that is what we swap...........but this time that is
NOT what i'm looking for. This swap is STRICKTLY for "Artistic" flies that
would be tyed for the wall as ART. Flies "should" be tyed on rather large blind
eye hooks using gut eyes. Materials are exotic feathers, fancy beads and
usually silk thread. I know that many of my fellow tyers are able to tie
"mountable" fishing flys but these super flys are not what is called Artistic
(although they are beautiful). Please check my website for hints and also the
web for artistic flys for some more ideas. Remember - only six tyers - first
come first in.
Thankx! mark
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