First off, I think whatever email client you're using is marking everything as *****SPAM***** in the subject line. Very detrimental to conversation. :)
Response below. On 12/3/06, Mike Hudack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We currently use rel="enclosure" in cross-posts, but we don't and can't > use rel="thumbnail" because (afaik) images in XHTML don't have a rel > attribute. I'd be very hesitant to use something like class="thumbnail" > because of potentially conflicting CSS on remote sites (we prefix class > names in cross-posts with a namespace like "blip_" to avoid conflicts). > I'm not sure what the proper approach to attaching semantically > important information to images is, but that's all the more reason why > this conversation is more important for the microformats-discuss list > than the videoblogging list. Where's andreas of solitude.dk when you need him? :) Overall, yeah, I agree. But I don't think I'm on this microstandards discussion list for some reason. Must have been some oversite on my part. You got a url or were you talking video vertigo? > The only way that a standard for additional metadata will be adopted is > if FeedBurner is on board. As I said in my previous e-mail, I've > discussed this with them and they're gung-ho for the idea but don't have > room in their roadmap right now. At blip we're ready to go with it, > though. We'll add whatever microformats we have to so that the > blip->cross-post->FeedBurner->MediaRSS workflow works best. Well, I think if just mefeedia and blip adopt it'll be mutually beneficial to us both immediately making it worthwhile. Peter is out of town at the moment, but this is at the very top of our priority list. Those damn thumbnails are sort of important to people and we can't generate them all. Remember, if it's in the blog post, even if Feedburner doesn't pick it up immediately and translate it to mediaRSS it'll get through to the RSS anyway and anyone including mefeedia, democracy, dabble or anyone who chooses to identify and use it can. Right now we're talking about going back in to identify all the videos coming from blip and their thumbnails and then cross referencing that with videos we're picking up from feedburner feeds and using the thumbnails there. It's be much easier for everyone if those thumbnails (and other meta info from blip) were contained right in those feeburner RSS feeds, either with mediaRSS as they get the chance, or with microstandards until then. This is not just about thumbnails of course, that's just at the forefront. We're talking about ways to pass around geographic data on individual posts, and having ways to continually extend and add new semantic data. Data that blip and others are collecting, data that gets lost in the cross posting. The trick is to allow people to specify as much metadata, or semantic data in the post as possible as simple as possible. This is something everyone can benefit from. The problem is as it turns out with mediaRSS is most people don't write their own mediaRSS feeds. They need simple microformats to specify semantically key meta info right in the blog post. rel=tag is a great example of this. We need a way to identify thumbnails next. Then to start looking at other metainfo that's missing. > We're more than happy to do support this in code before FeedBurner > does... so if FB agrees to support a microstandards standard at some point > in the future we'll add support to it in our code immediately. Rock on. That's what I'm talking about. Just got to figure out if we can't specify rel=thumbnail on image source what else we can do. We could use the "alt" space. It's usually used for text describing the image, but alt=thumbnail might work. Keep in mind while blip is going to be handling all this stuff automatically we need to keep it very simple to keep it accessible to everyday people whom very well may be hand coding it. So... if we can keep it rel=thumbnail that would be best. How else are people specifying microstandards? Within div tags? <div rel=thumbnail><img src="http://...";></div> What about <span>? I must admit I'm so out of touch. :P What strikes me as a more technical question is how to semantically specify alternate video formats like Flash in the source. As far as I know there's no way to extend rel=enclosure. The only think I can think of is to specify urls in duplicate. For example specifying one url for the generic rel="enclosure", specifying it again with rel="quicktime-enclosure", and another time with rel="flash-enclosure". That seems very complex though. There's got to be a simpler way. > If I had my druthers, Kevin Marks from Technorati, Lisa Rein from Dabble > and Eric Lunt from FeedBurner would be part of this conversation and we > could settle on a solution very quickly. So I've gone ahead and CC'd > all of them (and also CC'd Video Vertigo, which most of them are on). Sure, this should be pretty cut and dry. It's very simple and yet very useful stuff. -Mike mefeedia.com mmeiser.com/blog > Yours, > > Mike > blip.tv > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Good question jay, > > > > Does anyone know if Moveabletype, blogger, or Wordpress support > > mediaRSS? Has anyone created a plugin perhaps for MT or Wordpress? > > > > I've realized one of the primary issues with the mediaRSS spec is that > > when you're righting a post there's no quick markup to specify > > metadata IN the post. Specifically for example I was going to propose > > a series of Microstandards like "rel=thumbnail" so people could > > semanticly specify metadata in their post. > > > > For example when you specify the image to represent your video in the > > page you'd specify it like this. > > > > <img src="http://acme.com/yourthumbnail.gif > > <http://acme.com/yourthumbnail.gif>" rel="thumbnail"> > > > > As some may have noticed one of the biggest issues we have with > > mefeedia is generating tens of thousands of email a day. One of the > > things I've realized is that MOST people are specifying a > > representative thumbnail in their post, they're just not specified in > > the mediaRSS. > > > > I think we're going to adopt this rel=thumbnail standard pretty quick > > on mefeedia. > > > > But if we can also just get a few providers on board like feedburner, > > blip.tv, dabble and a few others we could creat much prettier and more > > usefull feeds really quick. > > > > A couple examples. > > > > 1) if feedburner jumps on board identifying thumbnails based on the > > rel=thumbnail standard they can also specify those thumbnails in > > mediaRSS and aggregatory tools like democracy, itunes, mefeedia, > > fireant or whomever recognizes mediaRSS will immediately start > > displaying the thumbnails you specify in your blog instead of randomly > > pulling their own. > > > > 2) This is particularly an interesting issue with people hosting > > their videos on blip. Blip does allow you to specify a thumbnail for > > each video, and they DO put it in your blip feed. However, 99% of all > > people using blip don't use blip's feed, they cross post from blip to > > their video blog where such meta information as the thumbnail is not > > semantically specified. By semantically specified I mean the image is > > just genrically specified in the page and the aggregator can't assume > > to know what it is. > > > > The point is as a result all the blip feeds look great on mefeedia, > > but all people's primary feeds have no thumbnails specified. > > > > If blip specified the thumbnails using the "rel=thumbnail" standard > > when crossposting to people's vlogs that information would make it > > into the RSS feed where it could be picked up by any aggregator. > > > > The bottom line is this... more semantic data = a prettier and more > > useful vlogosphere for everyone. > > > > So... who's with me? Josh K? Mike H., Justin, and the Blippers? Lisa > > Rien, Mary Hodder and the dabblers? Do we have someone representing > > feedburner here? > > > > On top of this I'd like to take a look at what other information is > > getting specified in blog posts, such as that that blip is collecting, > > that's not making it into the mediaRSS and why not. > > > > Again, 99% of vloggers specify a thumbnail in their blog post, but > > these thumbnails aren't making it into the mediaRSS because there's no > > way to semantically specify it in the blog post. Rel=thumbnail is the > > simplest way i can think of to accomplish this. > > > > Jay, you said you recently took a look at mediaRSS. What sort of > > metadata are you talking about, what metadata do you want to specify? > > Can you give a few examples of what your clients might find > > particularly interesting? > > > > I'm afraid that other than developing this and other microstandards > > that can be specified right in the blog post, rich meta information > > will continue to get missed untill the major blogging platforms like > > Blogger, Wordpress, and Moveable type support mediaRSS by default. > > > > Oh, and you should also note that Yahoo video search will pick up > > these thumnails too if we can get feedburner to support this proposed > > RelThumbnail standard. > > > > Are there any other major search engines or services I'm forgetting > > about that aggregate mediaRSS for search and such? > > > > -Mike > > mefeedia.com > > mmeiser.com/blog > > > > On 12/3/06, Jay dedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > <mailto:jay.dedman%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Here's the MRSS spec: > > > > <http://search.yahoo.com/mrss <http://search.yahoo.com/mrss>> > > > > It was developed by Yahoo! with a lot of collaboration from a > > > > community of contributors, including many folks on this list. > > > > FeedBurner supports MRSS in a pretty limited way -- really just as an > > > > addition to the enclosure element. Blip.tv includes a lot of MRSS > > > > metadata in their feeds, including support for media thumbnails and > > > > alternate versions of each video (FLV, Quicktime, etc.). > > > > Is there something in particular you want to do with MRSS? > > > > > > > > > yep....i saw the spec, but am having a hard time fitting my brain > > around it. > > > I am working with a group of Community TV stations that are starting > > > to upload and trade TV programs for playback around the country. > > > > > > They want to attach a lot of metadata into their posts....so they are > > > asking if Media RSS could help them. Questions I have is....how do > > > they create feeds that attach all this info into their feed? > > > Do they need to make their feeds by hand? > > > > > > right now, they are just uploading to their own servers...and using > > > Drupla to create their feeds. > > > > > > > > > Jay
