On 2 May 2010, at 14:28, elbowsofdeath wrote: > Jobs cant really say much about VP8 until oogle make an official > announcement about it can he? > Fair enough, I guess, though it seems a pretty open secret. And they've bought it, right? So it's not irrelevant, and the possibility should deserve some recognition in a full honest discussion?
> As for Quicktime,if we care about open standards then thank god > Quicktime multimedia development hasnt gone anywhere, > Really? Ignore the possibilities it presented? Just for the sake of open standards? > or we'd still be trapped in the 2004 battle between Apple & > Microsoft for codec/plugin dominance. > Are we not still trapped in a newer version of the old battles? Only with Apple and MS aligned for h.264 use only and Mozilla for theora only - with Google, Chrome & YT somewhere in between? > HTML5 is the best hope on that front, regardless of which codec is > used for the video & audio. There are already some basic tools in > Adobe CS5 to enable some limited sorts of flash stuff to be turned > into HTML5, and within a few years this stuff should explode in a > vendor-neutral way, leaving the video codec as the only issue. > I really look forward to HTML5 being widely usable, when browser compatibility and codec tolerance allows us to make video pages that more than 50% of web users can see, but it would still be nice to be able to easily make portable interactive networked video files that aren't dependent on the HTML page they're sitting in. > So clearly I disagree that Apple are the biggest offender when it > comes to 'dumb video blackbox' stuff. > Why "so"? Glad Adobe are building tools for the inevitable HTML5 transition, but surely Apple are the ones who had QT technology which made video not dumb, and then ignored, starved & killed it? I wonder whether that makes them worse than people who never had that view of video in the first place? > As for FUD, lets be honest, there is plenty of FUD about H.264 too. > There are legit issues for the future but its pretty telling that > people who are against H.264 took little comfort when the H.264 > patent-pool managers pushed back any woe for years. > I agree - I think the discussion has revolved a lot around Jobs's fudging of h.264 as 'open', and the difference he makes between that and Theora in his short response to Hugo? Rupert http://twittervlog.tv > > --- In [email protected], Rupert Howe <rup...@...> wrote: > > > > In all Job's attacks on Flash, he didn't really talk about the > > technical limitations of Flash video for animation/interactivity/ > media > > synchronization - which is telling, since Apple systematically > ignored > > Quicktime development & interactive Quicktime for years - and have > > basically just chopped Quicktime off at the knees. For 10 years > > Quicktime has been able to handle things that Flash still can't do. > > > > If Jobs had made interactive Quicktime & Interactive Quicktime > > development a priority 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago when video > > was obviously about to happen in a big way, he might have avoided > the > > explosion in Flash video and the problems he's getting now, so he's > > made his own bed AFAIC. > > > > And now come a bit late to the party to push a 3rd party patented > > codec that's not a great deal more useful than Flash, and > dependent on > > HTML5 or Apps for interactivity. > > > > The ignoring and lack of development of Quicktime, one of their most > > powerful technologies, is the biggest of the growing number of > things > > that (as a longtime Mac user) are making me dislike Apple more & > more. > > > > On another list, Adrian Miles talked about his "frustration at > > industry 'innovators' wanting to treat video as a dumb object and > > devices for playback as blackboxes". Apple is the biggest culprit in > > this. > > > > Re the theora patent pool thing - as Verdi noted, it's the usual > > patent Fear Uncertainty & Doubt, with absolutely no idea of whether > > there's any substance that would allow an action to be brought, let > > alone won. It's the passive voice that I noticed - it's the present > > continuous tense - *is being* rather than *has been* or *was > being* - > > - so it's something that's still underway, and presumably - since > > theora is not new - has been going on for a while. > > > > And I find it quite telling that VP8 hasn't featured in Job's letter > > or response. I hate the expression "elephant in the room" but > really, > > the fact that he can't even bring himself to mention it says to me > > that it undermines his argument about H.264 v Flash, even though I > > agree with most of his points about Flash. > > > > Rupert > > http://twittervlog.tv > > > > > > > > On 2 May 2010, at 08:15, Joly MacFie wrote: > > > > > A fair point is made in the comments in that article, that it > isn't > > > worth the patent trolls time and money unless someone deep- > pocketed > > > like Apple gets involved, but then they coud well come out of the > > > woodwork. > > > > > > Another comment does, however, note his use of the passive tense > to > > > describe this process. > > > > > > http://www.isoc-ny.org/p2/?p=789 > > > > > > On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 12:56 AM, tom_a_sparks <tom_a_spa...@... > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Michael Verdi <michael@> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 11:51 AM, Joly MacFie <joly@> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > I also noted Jobs recent statement that Theora is not free of > > > >> > potential encumbrance. > > > >> > > > > > > > > > the same comments were give about vorbis, where are the court > cases? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast > > > WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com > > > http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com > > > Secretary - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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