Hello, This is off topic, I know. But, in general, the quality of everything is dropping, even note takers. I have had nothing but keyboard issues with the HIMS braille sense. The IOS devices will never have that.... (smile)
----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Otten <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Date: Monday, November 30, 2015 5:02 pm Subject: Re: apple tv 4th generation thoughts > > > Amen. Apple is the richest tech company in the world. Unless they come out > publicly and say they acknowledged a lot of bugs, but just can't find enough > talented and qualified people to squash them all, they have zero excuse. > None. But as long as we all keep buying this half baked, half finished > software, and let them off the hook for several months, and let some bugs > keep piling up, there will be no incentive. The only thing companies > understand his bottom line. And clearly, the drop in quality is not hurting > Apple one little bit. Not among the blind, and not among the sighted The > whole industry is getting away with sloppiness. It is certainly not just > Apple. I have been experimenting again with android. And believe me, the > grass is definitely not greener on that side of the fence from the blind > person screen reader user point of view. It may have some advantages. But > efficient use is not one of them. > > Mary > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Nov 29, 2015, at 9:27 PM, Cristóbal <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > These are all salient points to consider, but also considering the sheer > > amount of cash Apple has at its disposal, I'm reluctant to cut Apple much > > if any slack on problematic issues like this. They have the resources > > available to them that if they wanted to make dealing with and avoiding > > accessibility bugs and limitations a priority, they could do so without > > skipping a beat. I mean come on, they have so much available cash on hand > > that they make Scrooge McDuck look like some bum scrounging for quarters in > > the gutter. > > There is absolutely no reason why their accessibility department or any > > department under the Apple umbrella should be understaffed or stretched > > thin.. > > Even with the new Apple TV OS aside, a lot of these bugs already discussed > > are either newly introduced bugs not present in older iterations of > > software or hardware or have solutions to them when using alternative > > assistive technology I.E. Windows screen readers, Android OS, etc. Often > > pretty basic and essential stuff. Cara's highlighting of the dial tone bug > > with VO is a perfect example of this. > > I can understand the challenges where you're developing new technologies > > and figuring out stuff as you go along, and maybe in this case, there > > simply aren't enough people or knowledge out there to address all the > > inevitable road blocks that pop up as part of the process, but for well > > established fields and problems that at this point shouldn't be problems > > anymore, again, no slack to be cut. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > > Of Marshall Scott > > Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 3:29 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: apple tv 4th generation thoughts > > > > I think there are two major reasons for the recent problems with > > accessibility at Apple. The first is that Apple now has to develop and > > support software and hardware for four product lines. These lines are OS > > X, iOS for iDevices, the apple Watch and finally Apple TV. Apple also has > > to support older devices like the iPhone 4S. The differences between these > > products may be slight but they have to be tested. > > The second issue is that Apple has decided on a 12 month release schedule.. > > As a former programmer, I feel like this is too short a development cycle > > to really fix bugs in software > > Just my opinion. > > Marshall > > > >> On Nov 29, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Cara Quinn <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> ben, I couldn't agree with you more here. > >> > >> I feel now that the more we are complacent about quietly dealing with the > >> mounting accessibility issues over the various OS roll-outs and new Apple > >> products, the worse this situation is unfortunately likely to become. > >> > >> The truth is that Apple has been doing incredible things in the access > >> world over the last several years and they really should be settling into > >> their groove now, not out of it. > >> > >> Unfortunately though, the later seems to be what is happening. > >> > >> Now I know that the accessibility team is stretched thin and has been for > >> some time now, and they are truly committed people who really do work hard > >> to make these technologies work for us, but some of these issues are QA > >> (quality assurance) issues in my opinion. Some of these obvious issues > >> need to be given higher priority than they seem to be receiving. Now I > >> know that there is a lot going on inside Apple that I am not aware of so > >> some of what I say may be well out of line here, (and I do apologize if > >> this is the case) but as a consumer and long-time advocate of Appel's > >> efforts, I feel I do have some right to express these sentiments. > >> > >> The people on the accessibility team are awesome folks but the fact is > >> that more and more, visually impaired consumers are having to deal with > >> what I do feel is becoming somewhat second-rate access experiences with > >> some Apple products and /or OS releases. This is simply unacceptable. > >> > >> I know this is anything but intentional on the part of the access team but > >> it is still simply unacceptable and I feel this needs to be said. > >> > >> to illustrate this, when iOS 8 came out, one extremely serious issue was > >> the sticking touch tones (which would prevent people from making calls) on > >> the iPhone. Who on earth let this walk out the door? Who thought that this > >> would be okay? For God's sake, the iPhone is first and foremost a phone > >> after all, and to have that very function released with such an > >> incapacitating bug for users of Voiceover is so far beyond crazy that I > >> honestly cannot express myself here within this list's language guidelines. > >> > >> If you are tasked with testing a phone, what is the first thing you test? > >> Can you make a call? Can you do it again? Can you do it five more times? > >> Can you make the call on the other models of phone you produce? You get > >> the idea... > >> > >> As I have recently said on another list, Apple has the pick of the cream > >> of the crop of engineers, designers and any other professionals it > >> requires. So why is this happening? What is the excuse?... > >> > >> Honestly, there is none... > >> > >> So what do we do about it? Certainly, posting here can be cathartic but it > >> may not reach those it needs to. Yes, we can write [email protected] > >> however, those communications may not actually go directly to the > >> engineers in the accessibility department like it used to. > >> > >> I personally feel that we need to secure several options for ourselves now > >> to be assured of good access to technology. I do feel we need to stay in > >> touch with Apple in a very active sense. I also feel we need to look at > >> all technology options besides Apple products and similarly stay actively > >> in touch with their respective developers and / or companies as well. > >> > >> I personally intend to stay with Apple products for the majority of my > >> tech needs, but quite honestly, I also feel the time is now in general, in > >> the tech world where the awareness level is much better than it ever has > >> been. Discussions are happening; conferences are covering access. I see > >> more discussion now on programming forums about accessibility and > >> interested developers asking questions. etc. > >> > >> My point is that Apple has been a true trailblazer here and while I hope > >> they find it in themselves to improve what they are doing now, I feel that > >> we need to really make our voices heard in general so that accessibility > >> can really be a forefront topic of conversation for technology in general. > >> > >> This can only benefit us... > >> > >> I would welcome others' opinions on this as well. What are your thoughts? > >> How do you feel we should address these issues? > >> > >> As I said I am by no means ditching Apple here. The truth is, I love my > >> Apple products and I love the fact that they have Voiceover. It's just > >> that it's a love / hate relationship sometimes now. That's all! :) > >> > >> So what do you think? Chime in if you like... > >> > >> Thanks so much for reading and please do have a wonderful rest of your > >> weekend and happy holiday season! > >> > >> Cheers! > >> > >> Cara > >> --- > >> iOS design and development - LookTel.com > >> --- > >> View my Online Portfolio at: > >> > >> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn > >> > >> Follow me on Twitter! > >> > >> https://twitter.com/ModelCara > >> > >> On Nov 29, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Ben Mustill-Rose <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> This is correct, but this simply shouldn't be the case. As it stands, > >> given the lack of apps and the VO issues, I have to add a few caveats > >> whenever I recommend that someone buys one because in my opinion it > >> simply isn't ready for primetime yet. The TV has been shipping for > >> around a month now and I haven't noticed any updates to the OS to fix > >> any of the issues that I and others have experienced. Some will argue > >> that I should email the accessibility address, but we're talking about > >> some really obvious issues here - E.G. "poster" being spoken instead > >> of app names and Siri screens being inaccessible. These are things > >> that Apple know about and have chosen not to fix. I'm confident that > >> at some point in the future these issues will be resolved, but when? > >> Should we really be content with spending what is for most people a > >> fairly large amount of money on a device in the hope that at some > >> point in the future it will be fully accessible? > >> > >>> On 11/29/15, MamaPeach <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> The new Apple TV, with updates, will improve over time, just like anything > >>> else that is newly released, such as any new versions of IOS. It takes > >>> people letting them know what issues they encounter in order for them to > >>> consider fixing them. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Ben Mustill-Rose > >>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 7:49 PM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: apple tv 4th generation thoughts > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> It's good but still feels like a bit of a beta product. The remote has > >>> sensitivity issues - E.G. I unknowingly purchased a film when it was > >>> in my pocket and there are some annoying VO issues but nothing that is > >>> a show stopper in my opinion. > >>> Given the fairly small range of apps available at the moment it's > >>> definitely expensive for what it is, but hopefully this situation will > >>> improve in the future. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Ben. > >>> > >>>> On 11/28/15, Larry Lumpkin <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> Hello all. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts concerning the apple tv 4.. > >>>> Do > >>>> you like it? Do you not like it? Why not? Etc. thanks very much. > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > >>>> list. > >>>> > >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >>>> if > >>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners > >>>> > >>>> or > >>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >>>> > >>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn > >>>> - > >>>> you can reach Cara at [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > >>>> --- > >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >>>> "VIPhone" group. > >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >>>> email to [email protected]. > >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > >>> list. > >>> > >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >>> if > >>> > >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners > >>> or > >>> > >>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >>> > >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - > >>> you can reach Cara at [email protected] > >>> > >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > >>> --- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >>> "VIPhone" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >>> email to [email protected]. > >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > >>> list. > >>> > >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >>> if > >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners > >>> or > >>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >>> > >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - > >>> you can reach Cara at [email protected] > >>> > >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > >>> --- > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >>> "VIPhone" group. > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >>> email to [email protected]. > >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >> > >> -- > >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > >> list. > >> > >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >> > >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - > >> you can reach Cara at [email protected] > >> > >> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > >> --- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "VIPhone" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >> email to [email protected]. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >> > >> -- > >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone > >> list. > >> > >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > >> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > >> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > >> > >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - > >> you can reach Cara at [email protected] > >> > >> The archives for this list can be searched at: > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > >> --- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "VIPhone" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > >> email to [email protected]. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners > > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - > > you can reach Cara at [email protected] > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "VIPhone" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners > > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - > > you can reach Cara at [email protected] > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "VIPhone" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [email protected]. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - > you can reach Cara at [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. Sent from a Braille Sense -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
