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HTH Alan Sent from my iPad Air > On Nov 30, 2015, at 10:48 AM, Rajmund <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hello, > This is off topic, I know. But, in general, the quality of everything is > dropping, even note takers. I have had nothing but keyboard issues with the > HIMS braille sense. The IOS devices will never have that.... (smile) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mary Otten <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Date: Monday, November 30, 2015 5:02 pm > Subject: Re: apple tv 4th generation thoughts > >> >> >> Amen. Apple is the richest tech company in the world. Unless they come out >> publicly and say they acknowledged a lot of bugs, but just can't find enough >> talented and qualified people to squash them all, they have zero excuse. >> None. But as long as we all keep buying this half baked, half finished >> software, and let them off the hook for several months, and let some bugs >> keep piling up, there will be no incentive. The only thing companies >> understand his bottom line. And clearly, the drop in quality is not hurting >> Apple one little bit. Not among the blind, and not among the sighted The >> whole industry is getting away with sloppiness. It is certainly not just >> Apple. I have been experimenting again with android. And believe me, the >> grass is definitely not greener on that side of the fence from the blind >> person screen reader user point of view. It may have some advantages. But >> efficient use is not one of them. >> >> Mary >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Nov 29, 2015, at 9:27 PM, Cristóbal <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> These are all salient points to consider, but also considering the sheer >>> amount of cash Apple has at its disposal, I'm reluctant to cut Apple much >>> if any slack on problematic issues like this. They have the resources >>> available to them that if they wanted to make dealing with and avoiding >>> accessibility bugs and limitations a priority, they could do so without >>> skipping a beat. I mean come on, they have so much available cash on hand >>> that they make Scrooge McDuck look like some bum scrounging for quarters in >>> the gutter. >>> There is absolutely no reason why their accessibility department or any >>> department under the Apple umbrella should be understaffed or stretched >>> thin.. >>> Even with the new Apple TV OS aside, a lot of these bugs already discussed >>> are either newly introduced bugs not present in older iterations of >>> software or hardware or have solutions to them when using alternative >>> assistive technology I.E. Windows screen readers, Android OS, etc. Often >>> pretty basic and essential stuff. Cara's highlighting of the dial tone bug >>> with VO is a perfect example of this. >>> I can understand the challenges where you're developing new technologies >>> and figuring out stuff as you go along, and maybe in this case, there >>> simply aren't enough people or knowledge out there to address all the >>> inevitable road blocks that pop up as part of the process, but for well >>> established fields and problems that at this point shouldn't be problems >>> anymore, again, no slack to be cut. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >>> Of Marshall Scott >>> Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 3:29 PM >>> To: [email protected] >>> Subject: Re: apple tv 4th generation thoughts >>> >>> I think there are two major reasons for the recent problems with >>> accessibility at Apple. The first is that Apple now has to develop and >>> support software and hardware for four product lines. These lines are OS >>> X, iOS for iDevices, the apple Watch and finally Apple TV. Apple also has >>> to support older devices like the iPhone 4S. The differences between these >>> products may be slight but they have to be tested. >>> The second issue is that Apple has decided on a 12 month release schedule.. >>> As a former programmer, I feel like this is too short a development cycle >>> to really fix bugs in software >>> Just my opinion. >>> Marshall >>> >>>> On Nov 29, 2015, at 11:20 AM, Cara Quinn <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> ben, I couldn't agree with you more here. >>>> >>>> I feel now that the more we are complacent about quietly dealing with the >>>> mounting accessibility issues over the various OS roll-outs and new Apple >>>> products, the worse this situation is unfortunately likely to become. >>>> >>>> The truth is that Apple has been doing incredible things in the access >>>> world over the last several years and they really should be settling into >>>> their groove now, not out of it. >>>> >>>> Unfortunately though, the later seems to be what is happening. >>>> >>>> Now I know that the accessibility team is stretched thin and has been for >>>> some time now, and they are truly committed people who really do work hard >>>> to make these technologies work for us, but some of these issues are QA >>>> (quality assurance) issues in my opinion. Some of these obvious issues >>>> need to be given higher priority than they seem to be receiving. Now I >>>> know that there is a lot going on inside Apple that I am not aware of so >>>> some of what I say may be well out of line here, (and I do apologize if >>>> this is the case) but as a consumer and long-time advocate of Appel's >>>> efforts, I feel I do have some right to express these sentiments. >>>> >>>> The people on the accessibility team are awesome folks but the fact is >>>> that more and more, visually impaired consumers are having to deal with >>>> what I do feel is becoming somewhat second-rate access experiences with >>>> some Apple products and /or OS releases. This is simply unacceptable. >>>> >>>> I know this is anything but intentional on the part of the access team but >>>> it is still simply unacceptable and I feel this needs to be said. >>>> >>>> to illustrate this, when iOS 8 came out, one extremely serious issue was >>>> the sticking touch tones (which would prevent people from making calls) on >>>> the iPhone. Who on earth let this walk out the door? Who thought that this >>>> would be okay? For God's sake, the iPhone is first and foremost a phone >>>> after all, and to have that very function released with such an >>>> incapacitating bug for users of Voiceover is so far beyond crazy that I >>>> honestly cannot express myself here within this list's language guidelines. >>>> >>>> If you are tasked with testing a phone, what is the first thing you test? >>>> Can you make a call? Can you do it again? Can you do it five more times? >>>> Can you make the call on the other models of phone you produce? You get >>>> the idea... >>>> >>>> As I have recently said on another list, Apple has the pick of the cream >>>> of the crop of engineers, designers and any other professionals it >>>> requires. So why is this happening? What is the excuse?... >>>> >>>> Honestly, there is none... >>>> >>>> So what do we do about it? Certainly, posting here can be cathartic but it >>>> may not reach those it needs to. Yes, we can write [email protected] >>>> however, those communications may not actually go directly to the >>>> engineers in the accessibility department like it used to. >>>> >>>> I personally feel that we need to secure several options for ourselves now >>>> to be assured of good access to technology. I do feel we need to stay in >>>> touch with Apple in a very active sense. I also feel we need to look at >>>> all technology options besides Apple products and similarly stay actively >>>> in touch with their respective developers and / or companies as well. >>>> >>>> I personally intend to stay with Apple products for the majority of my >>>> tech needs, but quite honestly, I also feel the time is now in general, in >>>> the tech world where the awareness level is much better than it ever has >>>> been. Discussions are happening; conferences are covering access. I see >>>> more discussion now on programming forums about accessibility and >>>> interested developers asking questions. etc. >>>> >>>> My point is that Apple has been a true trailblazer here and while I hope >>>> they find it in themselves to improve what they are doing now, I feel that >>>> we need to really make our voices heard in general so that accessibility >>>> can really be a forefront topic of conversation for technology in general. >>>> >>>> This can only benefit us... >>>> >>>> I would welcome others' opinions on this as well. What are your thoughts? >>>> How do you feel we should address these issues? >>>> >>>> As I said I am by no means ditching Apple here. The truth is, I love my >>>> Apple products and I love the fact that they have Voiceover. It's just >>>> that it's a love / hate relationship sometimes now. That's all! :) >>>> >>>> So what do you think? Chime in if you like... >>>> >>>> Thanks so much for reading and please do have a wonderful rest of your >>>> weekend and happy holiday season! >>>> >>>> Cheers! >>>> >>>> Cara >>>> --- >>>> iOS design and development - LookTel.com >>>> --- >>>> View my Online Portfolio at: >>>> >>>> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn >>>> >>>> Follow me on Twitter! >>>> >>>> https://twitter.com/ModelCara >>>> >>>> On Nov 29, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Ben Mustill-Rose <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> This is correct, but this simply shouldn't be the case. As it stands, >>>> given the lack of apps and the VO issues, I have to add a few caveats >>>> whenever I recommend that someone buys one because in my opinion it >>>> simply isn't ready for primetime yet. The TV has been shipping for >>>> around a month now and I haven't noticed any updates to the OS to fix >>>> any of the issues that I and others have experienced. Some will argue >>>> that I should email the accessibility address, but we're talking about >>>> some really obvious issues here - E.G. "poster" being spoken instead >>>> of app names and Siri screens being inaccessible. These are things >>>> that Apple know about and have chosen not to fix. I'm confident that >>>> at some point in the future these issues will be resolved, but when? >>>> Should we really be content with spending what is for most people a >>>> fairly large amount of money on a device in the hope that at some >>>> point in the future it will be fully accessible? >>>> >>>>> On 11/29/15, MamaPeach <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> The new Apple TV, with updates, will improve over time, just like anything >>>>> else that is newly released, such as any new versions of IOS. It takes >>>>> people letting them know what issues they encounter in order for them to >>>>> consider fixing them. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Ben Mustill-Rose >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 7:49 PM >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Subject: Re: apple tv 4th generation thoughts >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> It's good but still feels like a bit of a beta product. The remote has >>>>> sensitivity issues - E.G. I unknowingly purchased a film when it was >>>>> in my pocket and there are some annoying VO issues but nothing that is >>>>> a show stopper in my opinion. >>>>> Given the fairly small range of apps available at the moment it's >>>>> definitely expensive for what it is, but hopefully this situation will >>>>> improve in the future. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Ben. >>>>> >>>>>> On 11/28/15, Larry Lumpkin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> Hello all. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts concerning the apple tv 4.. >>>>>> Do >>>>>> you like it? Do you not like it? Why not? Etc. thanks very much. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>>> list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if >>>>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>>>>> >>>>>> or >>>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn >>>>>> - >>>>>> you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if >>>>> >>>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>>>> or >>>>> >>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - >>>>> you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>>> list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if >>>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>>>> or >>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - >>>>> you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>> list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - >>>> you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone >>>> list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - >>>> you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - >>> you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - >>> you can reach Cara at [email protected] >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - >> you can reach Cara at [email protected] >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > Sent from a Braille Sense > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - > you can reach Cara at [email protected] > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at [email protected] The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
