I thought the same thing Grant did, and that was that you were making philosophical or generic statements. When I read "Whenever possible, I do not purchase blindness specific apps." I didn't assume you were just talking about GPS apps.

I agree if a blindness specific app doesn't meet your needs or you think it's too expensive then you shouldn't buy it. However, I don't think a blind person should have to change the way they navigate or put up with other inconveniences just to use a main stream app if there is a another app, maybe written with the blind in mind, that better meets their needs.


On 10/28/2013 05:43 AM, David Chittenden wrote:
Considering that this discussion has been specifically about GPS apps, I
am specifically referring to GPS apps. So, contrary to your statement, I
am, in no way, speaking philosophically here.

The only blindness focussed app I have purchased for navigation is
Ariadne. The only reason I purchased it was because the free app I
previously used to acquire street addresses that I was passing ceased
working after an iOS upgrade.

People speak about how it is not possible to effectively navigate using
only street addresses. Those people are incorrect. All one needs to do
is change the way one navigates. Before Apple Maps upgraded, I walked up
side streets occasionally to learn which street it is. However, I mainly
learned to navigate using street addresses because that was what was
primarily available, and it works quite well.

You speak of the necessity of knowing the exact layout of each and every
intersection. I travel independently through cities in multiple
countries without such information. Traffic circles are quite common in
many countries. When the navigation app says take the second exit off
the traffic circle, this usually means, continue straight on the street.
When the app says take the first or third exit, this is easily
determined by knowing which direction the vehicles travel in the traffic
circle. In the US, it is counter clockwise. In most island nations, it
is clockwise. In either case, it is easily figured out by observing the
side of the street the vehicles drive on.

Oh, if one wishes to get a better feel for how roads are laid out and
intersect, I prefer Apple Maps traceable street view. It took practice
to learn to use it, but is valuable when in an unfamiliar area.

As for POI, many apps give many more locations than the blindness
focussed apps, especially when one is outside the US. I have been
tempted to acquire BlindSquare, but all the POI data it provides is
readily accessible from free and very low cost apps.

As for announcing upcoming intersections, Apple Maps now does a decent
job. The only problem I experience with Apple Maps is it tends to
announce the cross street both before the street and after the street.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Oct 2013, at 20:55, Grant Hardy <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

While I am not disagreeing with you from a philosophical perspective,
this doesn't really apply to navigation apps. Comparing blindness
specific and mainstream GPS apps can be like comparing apples and
oranges, as each are used for a completely different purpose. Examples
include announcements for crossed streets, descriptions of
intersections, and address ranges, which would simply not be useful in
mainstream apps. Far from just using an interface that is not optimal,
you would be using an app that offers completely different
functionality. Of course, there are exceptions, for example the Hop
Stop transit app is mainstream but can provide transit directions in a
reasonably easy to follow textual manner. But for demanding GPS tasks,
blindness specific apps - at least for now - offer a more complete
experience. Of course, to tell the truth no GPS app for iOS comes
close to the experience you could get on a notetaker like the
BrailleNote, but I suspect this will change sooner rather than later.

Grant

On Oct 27, 2013, at 6:56 PM, "David Chittenden" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Whenever possible, I do not purchase blindness specific apps. Because
the blindness market is so tiny, the developers need to charge
significantly more money just to break even; not to mention earning a
profit. Apps for the sighted have pretty visual interfaces. As a
blind user, it is our job to adjust to those interfaces, or pay the
premium for blindness targeted apps.

For almost every blindness targeted app, I have multiple general
market apps which do the same thing plus more. However, the
interfaces are usually more complicated for a blind person. This is
almost never a problem for me, but can be a problem for some.

Finally, as with blindness targeted products, many features are not,
and will not be, available in the blindness targeted app. As always,
this is specifically because of the size of the available market and
economies of scale.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

On 28 Oct 2013, at 12:15, "Joe" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Hi Alex,

I don’t want my personal opinion to taint your interest in
purchasing the app. I do feel like the skunk at the picnic for being
the only person who has found the app disappointing, but after
another round of putting the app through its paces, I don’t get the
wow factor. WhereTo lets you choose from a wider selection of
business categories and gives you the same distance monitoring that
BlindSquare provides. Ariadne performs the same function you mention
regarding the bus travel example. I’m not saying the app can’t be
great for some people, but for me the excitement just isn’t there
for the money you pay compared to other orientation apps. I knew not
to expect turn-by-turn directions. I knew it was not a fully
functional navigation app like the Seeing Eye app, but I was
expecting better accuracy, better stability and, frankly, better
coverage than what BlindSquare is providing. The app is not
providing nearly the amount of information it ought to be providing
for an area I am very familiar with. Anyway, I’ll stop slamming the
thing. I know people are loyal to it, but at $24 I thought it worth
sharing my candid thoughts on the thing. Besides, if Apple refuses
my refund request, I’ll have no choice but to start liking the
blasted thing.--Joe

*From:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
[mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Alex Hall
*Sent:* Sunday, October 27, 2013 12:48 PM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: BlindSquare, A Disappointment

First, I do not have this app, but I have done a lot of research
into it and am thinking of buying it at some point.

That said, it all depends on what you want from a navigation app.
Blindsquare can’t do turn-by-turn directions, so that’s where other
mapping apps come in and it is why Blindsquare can run in the
background. What you can do, though, is monitor a POI, with the app
telling you where it is in relation to you as you move. This way, if
you know the general layout of your area but not where a specific
point is, you can find it easily enough. You can also set up
triggers to have the app alert you when you pass within a distance
you pick of a point you pick. For example, if you need to have the
bus stop at First and Main, just set a 200 meter trigger for that
spot. You can then use the app to see your current street, and when
you are on Main or First and the app alerts you that you are within
your notification distance, you can have the bus stop or remind the
driver where you need to get off.

On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Richard Turner
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:



Also, to add to Sieghard’s comments, usingBlind Squaretogether with
Google Maps gives the best combination for knowing what is around
you, what street is coming up and turn-by-turn directions for one
third of what you would pay for one year of the Seeing eye app.

Blind Square has been updated numerous times since it came out and
the next release will likely simplify the main screen and may get
closer to what you were expecting in the first place.

Very few app developers have been as responsive to user feedback.  I
would strongly recommend that you contact the developer directly
with your concerns and I think you may find, with some patients,
that you will become much more fond of using it.

If not, then by all means, go for that refund.

Good luck with either choice,

Richard

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>[mailto:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>]*On Behalf Of*Joe
*Sent:*Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:50 AM
*To:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:*RE: BlindSquare, A Disappointment

Hi Sieghard,

The BlindSquare app is very accessible. I don’t want to give anyone
the impression that it is not, and as far as I know, Apple gives
other reasons for why you can request a refund. It’s a long shot,
hence my pointing out my, hope, for a refund. In that regard,
Android gets a small nod from me for allowing a try before you buy
scenario, but that’s beside the point and not an attempt to stir up
a debate.

I listened to a few podcasts about the app. That’s ultimately what
motivated me to take the plunge, but I may not have heard the one
you’re specifically referring to. If you can think of the episode
title or date, I’d be much appreciative. At $24, I’d be glad to find
ways to like it, though I did spend time reading through all the
documentation.

Anyway, just my two dollar’s worth. I’m open to being convinced
otherwise, but so far the alternatives are winning out.

Joe

*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>[mailto:
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>]*On Behalf Of*Sieghard Weitzel
*Sent:*Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:36 AM
*To:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:*RE: BlindSquare, A Disappointment

Hi Joe,

First of all, I doubt you will be able to get a refund. Apple has
been giving refunds for inaccessible apps, but you can definitely
not argue that Blindsquare is inaccessible since it was made for
blind users.

I think Blindsquare is awesome when it comes to finding out what’s
around you. First of all it is by far the best of these apps (I am
not including the Seeing-Eye app when I say “these apps”) when it
comes to announcing upcoming intersections without having to
interact with the device. I know Ariadne has a Monitoring function
which is supposed to do this, but I somehow never found it was all
that reliable. I admit, however, that after I bought Blindsquare I
deleted Ariadne from my phone and I haven’t used it probably in at
least a year.

I also like the fact that it’s very easy to put in my own points of
interest in Blindsquare. Later I can, for example, sit in my house
and I can check out where these points are in relationship to my
house, e.g. “Start of Trail, 550 metres at 11 o’clock”. You can, of
course, do the same with other points of interest, e.g. stores,
restaurants etc.

From what you said I assume you haven’t listened to any Podcasts
about Blindsquare because then maybe you might have had a better
idea about what to expect. But I think it’s a good idea to go
towww.applevis.com <http://www.applevis.com/>, search for
Blindsquare and listen to especially the one Podcast, can’t remember
the name of the person who does it. Maybe you will find some
information or hear about uses you hadn’t thought of before.

Regards,

Sieghard

*From:*[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>[mailto:[email protected]]*On Behalf
Of*Joe
*Sent:*Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:25 AM
*To:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:*BlindSquare, A Disappointment

I purchased the BlindSquare app on account of I did not want to
spend a lot more for the Seeing Eye GPS app. To be fair, I’m not
entirely sure what I was expecting, except I was hoping for a little
more familiarity with my environment. As it stands, the only real
advantage is that BlindSquare can tell me, maybe what intersection
is in front of me, and that with some turning this way and that to
make sure the app is not capturing intersections further away than
what you’re looking for. Actually, it seems a little illogical that
you would need to tap into two screens to turn on a mode that ought
to be readily accessible from the main screen. By all means buy it
if you’re on the fence, but my personal recommendation is that it’s
more than a little overblown. If you use Ariadne GPS with a
combination of WhereTo or Around Me, and pair these up with Google
MAPS or Apple’s own Maps app, you’ll be more than good to go without
spending more than twenty bucks. I would venture to suggest that
even Sendero’s Look Around app could help. Me, I’m hoping I’ll be
able to get a refund. Thumbs down.--Joe

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Have a great day,
Alex (msg sent from Mac Mini)
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>

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