I apologise for my poor and misleading wording. I purchased Sendero LookAround when it first came out, mainly to support the development of accessible GPS solutions. When I was in the US visiting family, I tried LookAround and found its POI database to be very limited. I ended up using Around Me, a free POI app to locate nearby places. Given that LookAround was the most expensive of that type of GPS app, I became disillusioned with the company. Like I stated in another message, if I am paying a significant premium for a blindness targeted app, I expect at least equivalent functionality if it is the only accessible app of its type, and significantly improved functionality if the general market apps are at least somewhat accessible.
David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: [email protected] Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone > On 29 Oct 2013, at 6:53, Christopher Chaltain <[email protected]> wrote: > > I thought the same thing Grant did, and that was that you were making > philosophical or generic statements. When I read "Whenever possible, I do not > purchase blindness specific apps." I didn't assume you were just talking > about GPS apps. > > I agree if a blindness specific app doesn't meet your needs or you think it's > too expensive then you shouldn't buy it. However, I don't think a blind > person should have to change the way they navigate or put up with other > inconveniences just to use a main stream app if there is a another app, maybe > written with the blind in mind, that better meets their needs. > > >> On 10/28/2013 05:43 AM, David Chittenden wrote: >> Considering that this discussion has been specifically about GPS apps, I >> am specifically referring to GPS apps. So, contrary to your statement, I >> am, in no way, speaking philosophically here. >> >> The only blindness focussed app I have purchased for navigation is >> Ariadne. The only reason I purchased it was because the free app I >> previously used to acquire street addresses that I was passing ceased >> working after an iOS upgrade. >> >> People speak about how it is not possible to effectively navigate using >> only street addresses. Those people are incorrect. All one needs to do >> is change the way one navigates. Before Apple Maps upgraded, I walked up >> side streets occasionally to learn which street it is. However, I mainly >> learned to navigate using street addresses because that was what was >> primarily available, and it works quite well. >> >> You speak of the necessity of knowing the exact layout of each and every >> intersection. I travel independently through cities in multiple >> countries without such information. Traffic circles are quite common in >> many countries. When the navigation app says take the second exit off >> the traffic circle, this usually means, continue straight on the street. >> When the app says take the first or third exit, this is easily >> determined by knowing which direction the vehicles travel in the traffic >> circle. In the US, it is counter clockwise. In most island nations, it >> is clockwise. In either case, it is easily figured out by observing the >> side of the street the vehicles drive on. >> >> Oh, if one wishes to get a better feel for how roads are laid out and >> intersect, I prefer Apple Maps traceable street view. It took practice >> to learn to use it, but is valuable when in an unfamiliar area. >> >> As for POI, many apps give many more locations than the blindness >> focussed apps, especially when one is outside the US. I have been >> tempted to acquire BlindSquare, but all the POI data it provides is >> readily accessible from free and very low cost apps. >> >> As for announcing upcoming intersections, Apple Maps now does a decent >> job. The only problem I experience with Apple Maps is it tends to >> announce the cross street both before the street and after the street. >> >> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >> Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 28 Oct 2013, at 20:55, Grant Hardy <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>> While I am not disagreeing with you from a philosophical perspective, >>> this doesn't really apply to navigation apps. Comparing blindness >>> specific and mainstream GPS apps can be like comparing apples and >>> oranges, as each are used for a completely different purpose. Examples >>> include announcements for crossed streets, descriptions of >>> intersections, and address ranges, which would simply not be useful in >>> mainstream apps. Far from just using an interface that is not optimal, >>> you would be using an app that offers completely different >>> functionality. Of course, there are exceptions, for example the Hop >>> Stop transit app is mainstream but can provide transit directions in a >>> reasonably easy to follow textual manner. But for demanding GPS tasks, >>> blindness specific apps - at least for now - offer a more complete >>> experience. Of course, to tell the truth no GPS app for iOS comes >>> close to the experience you could get on a notetaker like the >>> BrailleNote, but I suspect this will change sooner rather than later. >>> >>> Grant >>> >>> On Oct 27, 2013, at 6:56 PM, "David Chittenden" <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>>> Whenever possible, I do not purchase blindness specific apps. Because >>>> the blindness market is so tiny, the developers need to charge >>>> significantly more money just to break even; not to mention earning a >>>> profit. Apps for the sighted have pretty visual interfaces. As a >>>> blind user, it is our job to adjust to those interfaces, or pay the >>>> premium for blindness targeted apps. >>>> >>>> For almost every blindness targeted app, I have multiple general >>>> market apps which do the same thing plus more. However, the >>>> interfaces are usually more complicated for a blind person. This is >>>> almost never a problem for me, but can be a problem for some. >>>> >>>> Finally, as with blindness targeted products, many features are not, >>>> and will not be, available in the blindness targeted app. As always, >>>> this is specifically because of the size of the available market and >>>> economies of scale. >>>> >>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >>>> Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 28 Oct 2013, at 12:15, "Joe" <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Alex, >>>>> >>>>> I don’t want my personal opinion to taint your interest in >>>>> purchasing the app. I do feel like the skunk at the picnic for being >>>>> the only person who has found the app disappointing, but after >>>>> another round of putting the app through its paces, I don’t get the >>>>> wow factor. WhereTo lets you choose from a wider selection of >>>>> business categories and gives you the same distance monitoring that >>>>> BlindSquare provides. Ariadne performs the same function you mention >>>>> regarding the bus travel example. I’m not saying the app can’t be >>>>> great for some people, but for me the excitement just isn’t there >>>>> for the money you pay compared to other orientation apps. I knew not >>>>> to expect turn-by-turn directions. I knew it was not a fully >>>>> functional navigation app like the Seeing Eye app, but I was >>>>> expecting better accuracy, better stability and, frankly, better >>>>> coverage than what BlindSquare is providing. The app is not >>>>> providing nearly the amount of information it ought to be providing >>>>> for an area I am very familiar with. Anyway, I’ll stop slamming the >>>>> thing. I know people are loyal to it, but at $24 I thought it worth >>>>> sharing my candid thoughts on the thing. Besides, if Apple refuses >>>>> my refund request, I’ll have no choice but to start liking the >>>>> blasted thing.--Joe >>>>> >>>>> *From:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Alex Hall >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 27, 2013 12:48 PM >>>>> *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: BlindSquare, A Disappointment >>>>> >>>>> First, I do not have this app, but I have done a lot of research >>>>> into it and am thinking of buying it at some point. >>>>> >>>>> That said, it all depends on what you want from a navigation app. >>>>> Blindsquare can’t do turn-by-turn directions, so that’s where other >>>>> mapping apps come in and it is why Blindsquare can run in the >>>>> background. What you can do, though, is monitor a POI, with the app >>>>> telling you where it is in relation to you as you move. This way, if >>>>> you know the general layout of your area but not where a specific >>>>> point is, you can find it easily enough. You can also set up >>>>> triggers to have the app alert you when you pass within a distance >>>>> you pick of a point you pick. For example, if you need to have the >>>>> bus stop at First and Main, just set a 200 meter trigger for that >>>>> spot. You can then use the app to see your current street, and when >>>>> you are on Main or First and the app alerts you that you are within >>>>> your notification distance, you can have the bus stop or remind the >>>>> driver where you need to get off. >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 27, 2013, at 11:41 AM, Richard Turner >>>>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Also, to add to Sieghard’s comments, usingBlind Squaretogether with >>>>> Google Maps gives the best combination for knowing what is around >>>>> you, what street is coming up and turn-by-turn directions for one >>>>> third of what you would pay for one year of the Seeing eye app. >>>>> >>>>> Blind Square has been updated numerous times since it came out and >>>>> the next release will likely simplify the main screen and may get >>>>> closer to what you were expecting in the first place. >>>>> >>>>> Very few app developers have been as responsive to user feedback. I >>>>> would strongly recommend that you contact the developer directly >>>>> with your concerns and I think you may find, with some patients, >>>>> that you will become much more fond of using it. >>>>> >>>>> If not, then by all means, go for that refund. >>>>> >>>>> Good luck with either choice, >>>>> >>>>> Richard >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> *From:*[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>[mailto: >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>]*On Behalf Of*Joe >>>>> *Sent:*Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:50 AM >>>>> *To:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> *Subject:*RE: BlindSquare, A Disappointment >>>>> >>>>> Hi Sieghard, >>>>> >>>>> The BlindSquare app is very accessible. I don’t want to give anyone >>>>> the impression that it is not, and as far as I know, Apple gives >>>>> other reasons for why you can request a refund. It’s a long shot, >>>>> hence my pointing out my, hope, for a refund. In that regard, >>>>> Android gets a small nod from me for allowing a try before you buy >>>>> scenario, but that’s beside the point and not an attempt to stir up >>>>> a debate. >>>>> >>>>> I listened to a few podcasts about the app. That’s ultimately what >>>>> motivated me to take the plunge, but I may not have heard the one >>>>> you’re specifically referring to. If you can think of the episode >>>>> title or date, I’d be much appreciative. At $24, I’d be glad to find >>>>> ways to like it, though I did spend time reading through all the >>>>> documentation. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, just my two dollar’s worth. I’m open to being convinced >>>>> otherwise, but so far the alternatives are winning out. >>>>> >>>>> Joe >>>>> >>>>> *From:*[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>[mailto: >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>]*On Behalf Of*Sieghard Weitzel >>>>> *Sent:*Sunday, October 27, 2013 10:36 AM >>>>> *To:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> *Subject:*RE: BlindSquare, A Disappointment >>>>> >>>>> Hi Joe, >>>>> >>>>> First of all, I doubt you will be able to get a refund. Apple has >>>>> been giving refunds for inaccessible apps, but you can definitely >>>>> not argue that Blindsquare is inaccessible since it was made for >>>>> blind users. >>>>> >>>>> I think Blindsquare is awesome when it comes to finding out what’s >>>>> around you. First of all it is by far the best of these apps (I am >>>>> not including the Seeing-Eye app when I say “these apps”) when it >>>>> comes to announcing upcoming intersections without having to >>>>> interact with the device. I know Ariadne has a Monitoring function >>>>> which is supposed to do this, but I somehow never found it was all >>>>> that reliable. I admit, however, that after I bought Blindsquare I >>>>> deleted Ariadne from my phone and I haven’t used it probably in at >>>>> least a year. >>>>> >>>>> I also like the fact that it’s very easy to put in my own points of >>>>> interest in Blindsquare. Later I can, for example, sit in my house >>>>> and I can check out where these points are in relationship to my >>>>> house, e.g. “Start of Trail, 550 metres at 11 o’clock”. You can, of >>>>> course, do the same with other points of interest, e.g. stores, >>>>> restaurants etc. >>>>> >>>>> From what you said I assume you haven’t listened to any Podcasts >>>>> about Blindsquare because then maybe you might have had a better >>>>> idea about what to expect. But I think it’s a good idea to go >>>>> towww.applevis.com <http://www.applevis.com/>, search for >>>>> Blindsquare and listen to especially the one Podcast, can’t remember >>>>> the name of the person who does it. Maybe you will find some >>>>> information or hear about uses you hadn’t thought of before. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Sieghard >>>>> >>>>> *From:*[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>[mailto:[email protected]]*On >>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of*Joe >>>>> *Sent:*Sunday, October 27, 2013 7:25 AM >>>>> *To:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> *Subject:*BlindSquare, A Disappointment >>>>> >>>>> I purchased the BlindSquare app on account of I did not want to >>>>> spend a lot more for the Seeing Eye GPS app. To be fair, I’m not >>>>> entirely sure what I was expecting, except I was hoping for a little >>>>> more familiarity with my environment. As it stands, the only real >>>>> advantage is that BlindSquare can tell me, maybe what intersection >>>>> is in front of me, and that with some turning this way and that to >>>>> make sure the app is not capturing intersections further away than >>>>> what you’re looking for. Actually, it seems a little illogical that >>>>> you would need to tap into two screens to turn on a mode that ought >>>>> to be readily accessible from the main screen. By all means buy it >>>>> if you’re on the fence, but my personal recommendation is that it’s >>>>> more than a little overblown. If you use Ariadne GPS with a >>>>> combination of WhereTo or Around Me, and pair these up with Google >>>>> MAPS or Apple’s own Maps app, you’ll be more than good to go without >>>>> spending more than twenty bucks. I would venture to suggest that >>>>> even Sendero’s Look Around app could help. Me, I’m hoping I’ll be >>>>> able to get a refund. Thumbs down.--Joe >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>> >>>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by >>>>> visitinghttp://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> >>>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by >>>>> visitinghttp://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>> >>>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by >>>>> visitinghttp://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> >>>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by >>>>> visitinghttp://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>> >>>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by >>>>> visitinghttp://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> >>>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by >>>>> visitinghttp://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>> "VIPhone" Google Group. >>>>> >>>>> Post a new message to VIPhone by [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> Search and view the VIPhone archives by >>>>> visitinghttp://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >>>>> >>>>> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> >>>>> More VIPhone group options can be found by >>>>> visitinghttp://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>> send an email [email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>. >>>>> For more options, visithttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Have a great day, >>>>> Alex (msg 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https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" >> Google Group. >> >> Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing [email protected]. >> >> Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/. >> >> Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing >> [email protected]. >> >> Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing >> [email protected]. >> >> More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- > Christopher (CJ) > chaltain at Gmail > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > > Post 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