Having spent both considerable time and money in working with Stan Meyer
,( Some photos on our web site www. quantumleap.ie ) I caution anyone
believing in his technology beyond the "Fireing of interest" in the subject.
Stan made great mileage on showing how little current went to the cell , but
the actual shown current was only the current feeding the armature of the
alternator to create the magnetic field!
the alternator was rated in the region of 80 to 100 amps at 12V DC, so your
talking about 1 to 1.2 Kw of power , relate this to the gas vol. and the
whole question changes!
I hope to make a joe cell when I complete my house move in September next ,
so am very interested in this line of enquiry
I have considerable info on The Meyer cell if anyone is interested .
By the way - last year Charlie Holbrook ( Stans "Lackey"- he he he! )
contacted me asking if I was interested in any of the equipment or
developing it further - when I said yes - but there would be only money when
results were independantly verified - Funny - he never called back !
Was it something I said :-)
Regards to all
Noel In Ireland----- Original Message -----
From: "Frederick Sparber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "vortex-l" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 4:49 AM
Subject: Re: Water-based fuel for the ICE
Reaction Kinetics:
http://www.cheresources.com/reactionkinetics3.shtml
Radical Multiplication.
H2O + O ---> 2 OH
2 OH + H2O ---> 3 OH + H
3 OH + H2O ---> 4 OH + H
4 OH + H2O ---> 5 OH + H
5 OH + H2O ---> 6 OH + H
6 OH + H2O ---> 7 OH + H
5 H + 7 OH + n H2O ----> ??
This is why the use of split Hydrogen Peroxide Vapor
(HO-OH (liquid) + Heat ---> O + OH + H + H2O Vapor)
in the newer low temperature sterilizers can chew up almost any pathogen.
Same thing in the Joe Cell?
Fred
[Original Message]
From: Frederick Sparber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Date: 6/3/2006 5:51:45 PM
Subject: Re: Water-based fuel for the ICE
Jones Beene wrote:
>
> Fred
>
> >We ran it for several hours with distilled water only
> at about 1.9 milliamperes at 12 volts (24 milliwatts). nada gas
>
> Ha - several hours isn't enough. The way you would "precondition"
> the water for later use in the JC, is after about 12 hours - then
> use it for the ICE... obviously pure water won't draw enough
> current to be used without the preconditioning, and even then may
> require some electrolyte.
>
The most unpredictable variable is the guy doing the experimenting.
>
> Maybe the preconditioning has something to do with actually
> changing the water structure (clathrate-like) instead of, or in
> addition to, absorbing gases from the atmosphere - or dissolving a
> surface film off the electrode.
>
Or conditioning the metal surfaces with the dissolved acidic atmospheric
gases.
CO2 alone drops the pH to about 3.6.No problem getting it through
the exit tube.
OTOH, extraneous static electricity can "store" on the Helmholtz Layer-
Water-Metal interface (that's what Electrochemical Supercapacitors are
about)
and neutralize H3O+ or H+ ions which can induce Water Clustering Seeding
on the Residual OH- Ions.
My Cohort said at one electrode "it looked like smoke coming off" when
the
cell was running.
>
> The Meyer power supply gives copious gas at milliamps but it is at
> least *2000* or more volts (up to 20,000 v supposedly in one
> incarnation), and has electronic controls, which cycles the pulse
> off - when breakdown occurs, which it does at a regular frequency,
> depending on the plate separation (about 250 Hz it seems in the
> demo).
>
Meyer's Water Supercapacitor Design should give an "Avalanche" like that
at
breakdown.
>
> An optimized BG cell, like yours, at 10 watts should be compared
> in gas output to a 10 watt Meyer cell which is presumably
> operating at 2000 volts and 10 milliamps and 50% duty or whatever
> gives the same P-in.
>
If I was doing the experiment I would take off the power supply
and grab the Cat or a Wool Sweater and a Rubber Comb and see how much
static
electricity it could hold, and how much H or H2 and Cluster "Smoke"
was being generated in the cell.
Forever Amber rub?
>
> At that point - perhaps a hybrid can be imagined. In either case
> most of the actual "power" (the OU) is not coming from the P-in
> but from a surface effect, and certainly the Meyer cell would seem
> to benefit the most from more surface area.
>
I've been saying that for weeks.
>
> Please have a look at that Lawton video clip, if you haven't
> already. I was hoping Patrick would post the interesting parts of
> the Lawton pdf, if there is real data there - as I don't want to
> have to join another forum, just to get it. Yahoo gives me enough
> problems as it is.
>
Can't do that. A friend sent the 4.5 megabyte clip on Klein's Fox news
report that took 1/2 hour to download on my dial-up.
>
> > Can you come with some appropriate incantations Jones?
>
> Well the incantation which needs to be heard is this.
>
> Does the "preconditioning" itself turn pure dielectric water into a
> conductive fluid, presumably no longer pure - but such that less
> voltage can be used for the same amount of gas, while still
> retaining the dielectric properties of pure water in order to get
> the "exploding capacitor effect" ?
>
"Exploding Supercapacitor Effect is on the mark.
>
> The story I have heard about Meyer's VW was that the cell was only
> using 200 watts to self-power at idle. Presumably, at less voltage
> when using a preconditioned water, the results would even be
> better - and perhaps with a large area of neutral plates, the net
> effect would be to push it from being "on occasion" self-powered
> to being "on demand"...
>
200 watts multiplied by a lowly factor of 4 is one horsepower which is
more than adequate for VW engine idle and reactor power.
>
> But maybe you can do that with "only" BG techniques, who knows...
>
BG with BiG Surface Area is Supercapacitor too.
Fred
>
> Jones
>
