On Aug 1, 2007, at 7:50 AM, Michel Jullian wrote:
Dear Horace, when I read in your draft http://www.mtaonline.net/
~hheffner/DeflationFusion.pdf "a cathode can be loaded
electrolytically from one side, the electrolyte side, and yet be a
charged to millions of volts at the back side surface",
That is a fact, by the means I noted.
suspicions of heresy can't help rising again, you mean "charged to
a high surface charge density" don't you?
You are right in that my primary contention is indeed that high
electron fugacity is critical. Provided the electron density on the
surface and immediate subsurface greatly exceeds that of neutral
matter the objective is obtained. However, I should also note there
have been experiments, like the Barker experiments, where high
potentials affected radioactive decay rates. That might be quack
stuff, I don't know. I can't explain the Szpak cell so I don't know
for a fact what is important there either.
The cathode is "at ground potential", you say so yourself in the
draft,
Only in one variation though, which may actually end up being a
control. I mention two configurations related to the drawing. I also
noted "The back side surface can interface to a vacuum, high pressure
dry nitrogen, clear HV oil, glass, or any convenient highly
transparent and insulating medium on the high voltage back side of
the cathode."
any high voltage is across an insulator on the ++ anode, right?
Here is your drawing again for convenience:
You cut off the important part below: "A useful variation is to make
the cell high voltage negative, floating the electrolysis power
supply, and making the anode "++" in Figure 1 ground." I *knew* I
should have taken the time to re-do that drawing!
GGGGGGGGGGGG
G G
G G
G G
G G
| + X|G G++
|..+..........X|G G++
| + X|G G++
| + X|G G++
| + X|G G++
---------------|G G
|G G
|G G
|G G
|G G
|GGGGGGGGGGGG
|
Laser
Key:
-| - Thin glass
G - Surface of thick insulator
+ - Low voltage electrolysis anode
X - Thin film CF cathode at ground potential
++ - High voltage anode
.. - Electrolyte level
I assure you that what matters for high charge density on the back
side of your cathode is not the absolute voltage. The charge
density can be easily derived from basic capacitor design equations
see e.g. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/
pplate.html q=C*V, and C=epsilon*A/d =>
q/A = epsilon*V/d = k*epsilon0*V/d
where epsilon0 is permittivity of vacuum, k is the dielectric
constant of the material, V is capacitor voltage and d is
dielectric thickness. So a high dielectric constant k helps, and so
does a high average field V/d (which requires a high dielectric
strength --usually expressed in kV/mm), but absolute voltage is
irrelevant, although it will be typically high e.g. if you use a
50kV/mm dielectric strength material of thickness 1mm then you will
have to apply 50kV to get the highest possible charge density.
I am familiar with this, but it doesn't address the (my) main problem.
Here is my main mental block on all this. Going with Figure 1 as is,
suppose the ++ anode is at +50 kV relative to ground and there are a
thunderclouds around and the ground is at a potential of 100 kV. The
electron density of the cathode is then very small, certainly at its
top. The anode is at +150 kV. However, this discussion has helped
me a great deal. Thanks Michel! My muddled thinking is mostly
cleared up by putting the experiment in a Faraday cage. The charge
density is then indeed the main goal - by my reconning anyway. It
still may be of some interest to investigate, possibly as a control,
the Szpak perspective that it is the superpositioned field which is
effective, which requires two external HV electrodes around an
electrolysis cell, and in that case it is only the relative
potentials that matter.
This means the gap between HV anode and cathode can be as small as
convenient, maybe just enough to get a laser beam in, provided the
cathode can be made in a form that is structurally strong.
BTW I have a better idea than my previous suggestions for the ++
anode material, use an NaCl solution, it's an excellent conductor,
it's transparent, and it's easy to make an electrical connection to
(just dip the HV wire into it!), all you need is walls to contain it.
A good idea. I think there are also some clear plastics around that
conduct, and some coatings too, like the stuff used on solar cells,
but for the hobbyist salt water sounds great.
Hope this helps,
Yes indeed.
Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
