Some small progress is filtering in. I have an email this morning which indicates that gas collected from the one-watt cell (which is different from the Kanzius cell in that it uses the low power Stiffler exciter as input, and MnO as catalyst) will explode, indicating that there is hydrogen and oxygen in it.
But really that was to be expected- and the problem is this: what percentage of the flame is due to hydrogen, and what could be due to other active atoms like Na or Cl which cannot be collected (in unreacted condition) and are mostly gone (i.e. reacted without a flame) once the gas has been collected? To the extent that Na is a major active component in the gas which is evolved from a salt water cell, then it will unavoidably and immediately react when collected - even if it does not combust with a flame. Ergo the gas which can be collected from such a mix should not be as violently combustible as hydrogen from "real" electrolysis would be, by comparison: but to know that, you must factor in the fill-rate of the plastic bottle. Conclusions: in the flame which comes off directly - H2 cannot be all of it, due to the color of the flame, but since the collected gas will explode there is a decent percentage of hydrogen and oxygen in it. As to the possibility of salt droplets being solely responsible for the color - that cannot be it, due to the pH change (see below). I wanted to suggest that the explosion of the collected gas (which is said to be weak) be compared to collected gas which has air added to it, prior to being ignited. However, that is too dangerous under the circumstances. The purpose of that would be to see if the original mixture was stoichiometric. Another way will need to be found. Next, we are concentrating the liquid in an operating cell to test for pH, which is slow-going with only one watt of input. However, already I am told that it is over 9 (using the little meter designed for hot tubs which may not be too accurate)... ... but again - that doesn't tell very much - as either bleach or lye will have high pH - so all it says for now is that some salt (NaCl) is being converted into a base over time. Actually into "net" basic pH (see below) Then to make things more complicated - there is the possibility with these reactants, which I just learned of this morning- of an "acidified base" which does not neutralize. IOW to some small extent (low concentration) either base (either lye or bleach) can coexist with hydrochloric acid without neutralization, up to a point! Another oddity and it gets more complicated- but the real important goal now is to find a non-carbon containing catalyst which can sustain a flame for an extended time (minutes). I can understand why Kanzius chose gold colloid- as for cancer treatment (which is his focus) gold is non-toxic. But the natural suspicion is that there are better non consumable catalysts out there. The most-active "student" cell by far, has an unknown amount of carbon in it, and perhaps it is unrealistic to think that this result is achievable without carbon. Even so, it is exciting to think that because the experiment is so simple, that teenage science nerds (they call themselves that) can possibly add something significant to the knowledge-base which is accumulating for this line of R&D. BTW - Here is Prof. Bob's classroom video which shows the expected flame color from sodium combustion, which is very similar to what is seen. A hydrogen flame would be faintly bluish. When hydrogen and sodium are combined in a flame, the color of the hydrogen flame is overwhelmed, so to speak, by the sodium. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9z5-mJ8NZk Jones --- Horace Heffner wrote: > A couple simple ideas. > > Feed the vapor/gas into a tiny steam engine > (available at many hobby > shops.) It is easy enough then to close the fluid > loop using plastic > tubing. If the vapor condenses as steam does then > fine, you have an > engine and all you need to close the loop is enough > power to drive > the arc. > > If the gas is combustible then it should be possible > to run a small > model airplane engine (and still close the fluid > loop!) > > Best regards, > > Horace Heffner > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ > > > > >
