OK Jones, is the solid material pure carbon? If not, then the complex
organic material in the sample would produce the ions I indicated. If
the sample is pure carbon, this means Mizuno completely decomposed the
starting material, which I don't think is possible in a H2
atmosphere. In any case, the evidence has a lot of holes.
Ed
On Dec 5, 2008, at 3:14 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
Ed,
Whoa - there are two different modes of testing in this paper - gas
and gasless.
This "13C+" in question is not from the ongoing experiment where the
MS (a different one: ULVAC REGA201) is attached to the gas-line of
the experiment - but is done later, apparently using an outsourced
instrument with a higher precision - where the solid ash (and little
gas) is tested later.
The details are confusing but I am pretty sure this is right.
There is very little hydrogen in the ash for the secondary testing,
and he lists the compounds in a table which come off - IOW - for the
precision test - the beginning sample is almost all carbon and it is
FAR less likely that CH would be seen there.
From: Edmund Storms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: Edmund Storms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, December 5, 2008 1:49:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Mizuno depends upon conventional chemical theory
I would like to clear up a little confusion. A mass spectrometer only
measures the mass/charge ratio of ions. These ions are made by
bombarding the gas with electrons. This causes the molecules in the
gas to ionize and to decompose. One of the decomposition products of
most organic molecules is CH+, which is found at mass 13. This
molecule is not present in the initial gas, but is only made during
the measurement. A mass is also found at 12 which is C+, which is
also only present after ionization. The gas Mizuno has is probably a
mixture of CH4 and various complex organic molecules. If C13 is
present, it will make ions at 13, 14, 15, and 17, which result from
the ions C13+.C13H+, C13H2+, and C13H4+. These molecules will also be
seen at 12, 13, 14 and 16 in a normal spectrum based on C12. The
question people need to ask, if a lot of C13 was present, where are
the carbon-hydrogen ions based on this isotope?
Ed
On Dec 5, 2008, at 2:22 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
>
>> Don't forget that the analysis was outsourced. IOW the product of
>> the reaction
>> (presumably a black solid resembling soot) was sent offsite to be
>> analyzed,
>> implying a likely time between production and analysis of days at
>> least. Far too
>> long for a radical to continue to exist.
>
> I have been meaning to raise that point. Maybe we should mention it
> in the paper, although it seems kind of obvious.
>
> Mizuno has various mass spectrometers in his lab, including some
> fossils from the 1960s, but none as good as the Finnigan Mat Element
> gadget. He bought a quadrupole mass spec himself to analyze effluent
> gas on-line in real time. ("Quadrupole" -- which I find difficult to
> pronounce -- means exactly what it sounds like: four polls, which
> are at the heart of the gadget.)
>
> - Jed
>
