The calculations of the steam velocity below translates to a 188 mph jet of steam coming out of a hose having an area of 1 cm^2 (equates to a 1.13 cm inner diameter hose or .44" inner diamter)
Double the area of the hose and the velocity will drop by a factor of 2 to 94 mph. The steam should be transparent for many inches beyond the end of the hose if sprayed into the room - did it? How do people describe the velocity and volume of the steam? On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Jones Beene <[email protected]> wrote: > Here are some calculations that imply certain water/humidity effects > which should have been observed at the demo. > > This is from an associate LENR researcher - Jeff Morriss, in response to > the other issues on steam/vapor raised by Jeff Driscoll and Peter van > Noorden, which so far do not have convincing answers. > > > > Nagel states that 150 grams of water are boiled every 30 sec, or 5 cc/sec. > Taking the density of steam at 100C as .590 Kg/m**3 and ratio-ing it > against the density of liquid water as 1000 kG/m**3 yields a volume increase > of 1690. So each 5 cc of water is converted into 8450 cc of steam every > second. If we estimate the area of the vent hose at ~1 cm**2, then the steam > velocity must be 8450 cm/sec of 84.5 m/sec. This is about 1/4 the speed of > sound and should produce quite a jet of steam. Did anyone observe this? > Also, the steam would condense and quickly produce a saturated atmosphere > and condensation on metal surfaces. Again, did anyone observe this? > > > > Here is a second sanity check. The specific heat of dry air at 1 atm is > 1.14 kJ/Km**3. If we assume a room volume of 300 m**3 (about the size of > an average classroom) then it takes > > (300 m**3)*(1.14 kJ/Km**3) = 342 kJ > > to raise the temperature of the room by one degree. The energy required to > boil 18 liters of water is 4.7E4 kJ. So if no heat escaped the room and we > ignored the additional energy change due to an increase in relative > humidity then the ambient temperature should have increased by 4.7e4/342 or > about 137 degrees C. Even if the air in the room cycled every 6 minutes > (and that would require special ventilation) the ambient would still rise > by 13.7C, which would be noticeably hot and muggy. > > > > Finally, the 4.7E4 kJ/hour is equivalent to 1.31E4J/sec. As a basis of com > parison, it would be equivalent to 240V at 54 Amps, which is the capacity > of an electric furnace for a large house. > > You may want to pass my calculations by someone else for checking, but I > believe they are correct. > > Jeff > > From: Jeff Driscoll > > Was the "steam" exiting the Rossi device transparent or was it an opaque > white? (right at the top where it transitions from the aluminum foil > covered "chimney" to the black hose) …If it is transparent then that would > mean it is water vapor - and truly 12 kW of steam… But if it was white > then that would indicate condensed tiny liquid droplets (or ultrasonic > fogging) and fraudulent scamming. > > > > Water vapor is virtually invisible…. On a tea kettle, the steam immediately > coming out of the kettle is transparent but roughly 1 or 2 inches > away the vapor condenses to tiny droplets which become a white fog. > > > > On Tue, Jan 18, P.J van Noorden <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I wondered why people had no problems with the 8 liters of watervapour > which was released into the room during the Rossi experiment. A simple > experiment in which I evaporised 8 liters of water in a room of 100 m3 with > a powersource of 9 kW ( 3 heaters of each 3 kW) did produce a very humid > atmosphere ( approaching RH 90%) and the temperature rose to more then 30 > degr. > > Why wasn`t this detected during the experiment of Rossi? If the aircon > was powerfull enough one would still notice a turbulence of warm and cold > airflow in the room. > > > > Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jeff Driscoll > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 4:08 AM > > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nagel: Check List for LENR Validation Experiments > > That meter that was listed can measure Relative Humidity but it can not > measure the quality of the steam. As you know, relative humidity just > means how saturated the air is for for the given temperature - it says > absolutely nothing about the quality (dryness or "wetness") of the steam. > > The quality of the steam (a.k.a. dryness on Vortex) gives you the ratio of > the mass of vapor to the total mass of water (liquid and vapor) in a given > sample. > > It takes complicated expensive instruments to measure the quality of steam > (one device is called a "throttling calorimeter"). A common or even > expensive Relative Humidity instrument can not do it. > > If Rossi used an ultrasonic fogger in boiling water, he could get micron > sized droplets at 100 C. That's close enough to 101 C with errors due to > calibration. They should insulate the black hose and stick it in a barrel of > water. 12 kW of steam that is fed into 50 gallons of water (or some > number of gallons) will raise the temperature at rate that could be easily > measurable. > > If it can be done, find out exactly what information rules out "wet" > steam. > > > > Here is a photo of an ultrasonic fogger using water to produce what looks > like steam, but is in fact micron sized water droplets: > > > > http://www.buzzle.com/articles/ultrasonic-fogger-how-does-it-work.html > > > > Here is a link to a description of a "throttling calorimeter" which is a > device that measures the quality ("wetness") of steam. Basically the > throttling calorimeter involves letting the pressurized steam expand into a > cavity and measuring the temperature of the resulting gas. It only works > with pressurized steam such as 30 psia steam or higher so that it can expand > down to 15 psia or atmospheric pressure. > > > > http://www.plantservices.com/articles/2003/378.html?page=full > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Jed Rothwell <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Jeff Driscoll <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > How can you use an indoor air quality meter (listed in Jed's email) to > measure the dryness of the steam? (you can't) > > Apparently you can. The person who did this is reportedly an expert in > steam. I gather this meter measures RH in steam as well as air. > > > > Can it be faked the following way: > > > > Use an ultrasonic fogger operating at 1.6 MHz to create micron size > droplets. Heat the droplets to 90 C and then send it down the black hose. > > The temperature of the steam out the outlet is measured with a > thermocouple. It is 101 deg C. So it is definitely steam, or a mixture of > steam and water. The RH meter ensures that is all dry steam. > > - Jed > >
