The calculations from Jeff Driscoll about the velocity of the ejected steam are very important to understand what is going on.
*How is it possible that the black tube is laying quiet on the ground while the steam has a high velocity of about 300 km/hr. The high velocity of the steam would create a reaction force in the tube which would cause the tube to change position. *Further the escape of the steam from the black tube would create a very hard noise, which would attract the attention from people. *Why has nobody noticed the extreme volicity of the steam when the steam quality was measured with a probe ( deafening hissing sound)? *Has anybody paid attention to the situation in the adjacent room during the demonstration? What happened in that room is equally important for the interpretation of the experiment in comparison to the results witnessed in the room with the Rossi experiment. *Also I would expect that the black tube ( which looks like a waterhose) would soften because of the high energycontent of the steam. All in all it looks as if the energy content of the "watervapour" from the Rossi experiment is much lower to the energy content of steam created by for instance a steam engine heated with 12 kW of power. Peter v Noorden ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Driscoll To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 12:56 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nagel: Check List for LENR Validation Experiments The calculations of the steam velocity below translates to a 188 mph jet of steam coming out of a hose having an area of 1 cm^2 (equates to a 1.13 cm inner diameter hose or .44" inner diamter) Double the area of the hose and the velocity will drop by a factor of 2 to 94 mph. The steam should be transparent for many inches beyond the end of the hose if sprayed into the room - did it? How do people describe the velocity and volume of the steam? On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 3:35 PM, Jones Beene <[email protected]> wrote: Here are some calculations that imply certain water/humidity effects which should have been observed at the demo. This is from an associate LENR researcher - Jeff Morriss, in response to the other issues on steam/vapor raised by Jeff Driscoll and Peter van Noorden, which so far do not have convincing answers. Nagel states that 150 grams of water are boiled every 30 sec, or 5 cc/sec. Taking the density of steam at 100C as .590 Kg/m**3 and ratio-ing it against the density of liquid water as 1000 kG/m**3 yields a volume increase of 1690. So each 5 cc of water is converted into 8450 cc of steam every second. If we estimate the area of the vent hose at ~1 cm**2, then the steam velocity must be 8450 cm/sec of 84.5 m/sec. This is about 1/4 the speed of sound and should produce quite a jet of steam. Did anyone observe this? Also, the steam would condense and quickly produce a saturated atmosphere and condensation on metal surfaces. Again, did anyone observe this? Here is a second sanity check. The specific heat of dry air at 1 atm is 1.14 kJ/Km**3. If we assume a room volume of 300 m**3 (about the size of an average classroom) then it takes (300 m**3)*(1.14 kJ/Km**3) = 342 kJ to raise the temperature of the room by one degree. The energy required to boil 18 liters of water is 4.7E4 kJ. So if no heat escaped the room and we ignored the additional energy change due to an increase in relative humidity then the ambient temperature should have increased by 4.7e4/342 or about 137 degrees C. Even if the air in the room cycled every 6 minutes (and that would require special ventilation) the ambient would still rise by 13.7C, which would be noticeably hot and muggy. Finally, the 4.7E4 kJ/hour is equivalent to 1.31E4J/sec. As a basis of comparison, it would be equivalent to 240V at 54 Amps, which is the capacity of an electric furnace for a large house. You may want to pass my calculations by someone else for checking, but I believe they are correct. Jeff From: Jeff Driscoll Was the "steam" exiting the Rossi device transparent or was it an opaque white? (right at the top where it transitions from the aluminum foil covered "chimney" to the black hose) …If it is transparent then that would mean it is water vapor - and truly 12 kW of steam… But if it was white then that would indicate condensed tiny liquid droplets (or ultrasonic fogging) and fraudulent scamming. Water vapor is virtually invisible…. On a tea kettle, the steam immediately coming out of the kettle is transparent but roughly 1 or 2 inches away the vapor condenses to tiny droplets which become a white fog. On Tue, Jan 18, P.J van Noorden <[email protected]> wrote: I wondered why people had no problems with the 8 liters of watervapour which was released into the room during the Rossi experiment. A simple experiment in which I evaporised 8 liters of water in a room of 100 m3 with a powersource of 9 kW ( 3 heaters of each 3 kW) did produce a very humid atmosphere ( approaching RH 90%) and the temperature rose to more then 30 degr. Why wasn`t this detected during the experiment of Rossi? If the aircon was powerfull enough one would still notice a turbulence of warm and cold airflow in the room. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Driscoll To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 4:08 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Nagel: Check List for LENR Validation Experiments That meter that was listed can measure Relative Humidity but it can not measure the quality of the steam. As you know, relative humidity just means how saturated the air is for for the given temperature - it says absolutely nothing about the quality (dryness or "wetness") of the steam. The quality of the steam (a.k.a. dryness on Vortex) gives you the ratio of the mass of vapor to the total mass of water (liquid and vapor) in a given sample. It takes complicated expensive instruments to measure the quality of steam (one device is called a "throttling calorimeter"). A common or even expensive Relative Humidity instrument can not do it. If Rossi used an ultrasonic fogger in boiling water, he could get micron sized droplets at 100 C. That's close enough to 101 C with errors due to calibration. They should insulate the black hose and stick it in a barrel of water. 12 kW of steam that is fed into 50 gallons of water (or some number of gallons) will raise the temperature at rate that could be easily measurable. If it can be done, find out exactly what information rules out "wet" steam. Here is a photo of an ultrasonic fogger using water to produce what looks like steam, but is in fact micron sized water droplets: http://www.buzzle.com/articles/ultrasonic-fogger-how-does-it-work.html Here is a link to a description of a "throttling calorimeter" which is a device that measures the quality ("wetness") of steam. Basically the throttling calorimeter involves letting the pressurized steam expand into a cavity and measuring the temperature of the resulting gas. It only works with pressurized steam such as 30 psia steam or higher so that it can expand down to 15 psia or atmospheric pressure. http://www.plantservices.com/articles/2003/378.html?page=full On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 8:38 PM, Jed Rothwell <[email protected]> wrote: Jeff Driscoll <[email protected]> wrote: How can you use an indoor air quality meter (listed in Jed's email) to measure the dryness of the steam? (you can't) Apparently you can. The person who did this is reportedly an expert in steam. I gather this meter measures RH in steam as well as air. Can it be faked the following way: Use an ultrasonic fogger operating at 1.6 MHz to create micron size droplets. Heat the droplets to 90 C and then send it down the black hose. The temperature of the steam out the outlet is measured with a thermocouple. It is 101 deg C. So it is definitely steam, or a mixture of steam and water. The RH meter ensures that is all dry steam. - Jed
